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Geschrieben von clovis1122, 08.04.2025 at 14:14

Geschrieben von Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

I made the same mistake

I guess deep down, we'd like to believe we can solve differences through communication. And yet, that will just never work with some people. Identifying such people is a hard task... even after we decide to burn the bridge and cut ties, we're left wondering: had we communicated better... could we have settled our differences?

100% this.

Geschrieben von 4nic Smith, 08.04.2025 at 09:53

Cmon Dave, do the right thing, its now or never, general pardon my friends, they dindu nothing, general pardon even xbugs just tie his hands so he wont hack anymore.

Sorry cousin, but you know I'm doing the right thing by keeping the bad people outta here.

Geschrieben von Red.Army, 08.04.2025 at 06:54

They painting you out to be this evil guy who won't change his mind about banned players when it is simply not true. You and the mods didn't have to remove my permaban back during the pandemic, but you did

You're one of the few we gave a 2nd chance to who DIDN'T make us regret it. Thank you.

I really admire your passion for creating maps for a game that's on its last legs.

Geschrieben von LuciferStar, 07.04.2025 at 23:21

Well, this thread has certainly gained traction.

This is my (unwarranted?) two cents on the issue. Working in law has given me insight into the impulse to punish as a means of deterrence, which is entirely valid. Historically, punishment has been regarded as the most effective way to discourage unwanted behavior.

However, the legal system also incorporates statutes of limitations for good reason. If we imprisoned people indefinitely, our correctional facilities would quickly reach capacity.
After 4-5 years, it's reasonable to conclude that the point has been made. While punishments help maintain social order, second chances make our communities more humane and livable.

The competitive community is barely surviving, and realistically, extending second chances to players might breathe new life into what once united enthusiasts across the board. You can always reinstate bans if necessary, but taking a measured risk to improve the game's ecosystem seems like a reasonable gamble.

Consider that growth often comes from our willingness to reevaluate rigid positions. The strongest communities aren't those that punish forever, but those that create pathways for genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. At some point, we must ask ourselves what matters more: maintaining the permanence of old decisions or fostering an environment where people can demonstrate they've changed. The game's future might depend on our answer.

As someone who has also worked in the law, I know there are 2 different kinds of offenders. There are those who got into trouble, were punished, and straightened out their lives because of it, never getting in trouble again. And then there are those who are habitual offenders with rap sheets a mile long, who have never and will never learn.

I think almost no one who we banned or deleted back in 2021 was innocent. Most were habitual offenders to begin with. I have no interest in giving them 3rd, 4th, or however many chances. Let's just be honest: they are not going to be rehabilitated, and I'm not wasting time to try again.

Been there, done that.

For the Lion situation : What he did was abuse ur trust and delete a discord server true thats not good , but i wouldnt say it was something major , for me personally i didnt even know there existed such a server
and most players probably dont even use discord or know of aw related servers , heck i havent had anyone come up to me and say damn man lion deleted some random discord server that 99% of aw players didnt even know about lol
Imo the lion ban is yours personally vendetta , i dont think u will find many ppl that would say good thing that lion is banned xd

You have no idea how to use the [img] command. It's not Dave's fault.

Hey, congrats on winning the game, mate!

Geschrieben von Weisser Wolf, 07.04.2025 at 22:39

Dave,

I think it goes without saying at this point—everyone has already shared their thoughts on the current state of the game: the players you've refused to unban, the slow pace of improvements, and the steady decline in activity. However, I'd like to comment on one particular aspect.

A true leader knows when to acknowledge a mistake. And if you're looking for examples, some of the most respected CEOs—like those of Microsoft or Apple—have publicly admitted when they've made the wrong call. That's not weakness, that's humility. I say this with the utmost respect: I hope you take a moment to genuinely reflect.

Even users often labeled as toxic or disruptive—like Kaska—have recognized that the mass banning of players has gone too far. And honestly, if someone like me, who used to be known for toxic behavior in duels and clan wars, can admit it was time to grow up and stop playing the victim, I believe change is possible. I had to take a "forced vacation" myself, and I now recognize how counterproductive that attitude was.

As Kaska suggested, why not simply unban those users but mute them from everything except private messages? What real harm could they do? If you give them a second chance, many of them might return—and with them, activity could increase again. We could even experiment with fresh concepts: maybe an "ancient season," or a rotation of never-before-seen maps. As we all know, atWar has near-infinite creative potential.

And if time or resources are the problem, subcontracting is always an option. Outsourcing some work to experienced developers—say, from Mexico or India—could go a long way. Believe me, as a business and process consultant, I say this from experience.

As many have said, an event where you make Waffel super admin or I don't know, something innovative while simply AIing the game or fixing bugs in the maps. And on the topic of Lion nuking the discord, please Dave, it's not like it was the end of the world. I bet Croat or someone else who had the power to do that over a little tantrum could have done it.

It's time to move into the future, even games that were abandonware are reviving thanks to the community, you need a real community manager for the game and maybe, dedicate yourself to the technical, marketing and business issues of the game and believe me many people in the community would be happy to help as it was in that era when Alois and not a certain bug abuser was the head supporter.

I know I'm repeating things others have already pointed out, but I still felt it was worth adding my two cents to the conversation.

I agree that a good leader admits when he is wrong and I like to believe I have that ability too. I've already stated in this thread that I made a mistake wasting too much time talking with the community instead of just focusing on what I knew needed to be done. But as regards removing the people who needed to be removed, I remain convinced it was the right decision.

I hear so many people say "give them a second chance", "maybe they've changed", or sentiments to this effect. Do you not realize, we already did that? Many of the troublemakers who ultimately got banned or deleted in 2021 were people who had ALREADY been through rounds of bans, appeals, and second chances. People must have short memory spans, but I still remember. So if you wonder why I'm unwilling to unban again, it's because we already tried that and it didn't work. I have no interest in going down that road again.

I am also surprised that for as much as people talk about the "good ol' days of atWar", the community, the friendships.... all these things people look back fondly at.... and yet they seem to have no problem with Lion having destroyed a big part of that history forever. It's paradoxical to me that anyone would miss the past and yet defend Lion destroying that same past.

I cannot believe I have read this whole thing and I was shocked of how Atwars community has come to this.

As someone who just comes on,trolls someone here and there,and just closes the game,I feel like Dave should really let go of everything and just let people have the last bit of fun,while it lasts.
Just let it go,modify their access to communication or have some restriction,I don't know,but let people have what they want and see how it goes,you can't lose something that's not lost yet.

This is not a troll post,nor anyone convinced me to write this stuff. I do not even talk to anyone on or off atwar,so this is my pure opinion.

Whatever you might think about Dave or the state of the game. We should give credit where it's due, he hasn't taken down this thread and he is still paying for the upkeep of the game. AW is still here when a lot of business minds would have simply shut it down.

Sometimes I wonder what people I used to play with get up to and I come here to look at the old clan pages and think about the great times we had. The forums hold a lot of sentimental value. Sometimes I get a chance to talk to one of them and it's nice to know where they are and what they're doing. I still have that chance because Dave keeps the lights on.

For accounts that were banned, it would be nice to see them reinstated to some capacity, but not at the expense of alienating the guy that maintains what's left. Ultimately it's up to him whether we like it or not. He's one man, he's capable of the same greatness and fuckery as the rest of us.

Cheers

Geschrieben von DON RUTTER, 03.04.2025 at 20:15

Wait a second. Before taking any step, we should clarify who is considered pro and who is not. I say everybody level 9 and up.

Clearly everyone is noob except me

Would it be against the rules for me to tell OP to kill himself? because he should

Geschrieben von Dave, 01.04.2025 at 23:41

The only mistake I've made with atWar was actually caring TOO much about the community and what other people think. It caused me to waste too much time talking to people trying to make them see my position. Nobody cares. Waffel is the perfect example. I spent HOURS talking with that dude, listening to his concerns, telling him mine, and trying to reach understanding. Then he goes off and posts things which only show me that he absolutely did not understand anything I said. The lesson I've learned: people are gonna bitch no matter what. Nothing I say will change their minds. Just do what you need to do for the best interests of the game and ignore the noise.

I made the same mistake

I guess deep down, we'd like to believe we can solve differences through communication. And yet, that will just never work with some people. Identifying such people is a hard task... even after we decide to burn the bridge and cut ties, we're left wondering: had we communicated better... could we have settled our differences?

It is simple: accept that you are wrong when everyone, even those at odds with each other, says the same thing.

Cmon Dave, do the right thing, its now or never, general pardon my friends, they dindu nothing, general pardon even xbugs just tie his hands so he wont hack anymore.

Geschrieben von MMA Amine-Diaz, 08.04.2025 at 08:28

Thanks Dave for fixing the game it's the best game I've ever found I've made some great friends here when I couldn't log in yesterday for more than 2 hours I felt really down because I was afraid I'd miss my best friends here and when I could finally log in I felt so happy so thank you
I hope this game will continue to work in the coming years because I have had the benefit of memories and many have interacted here on this topic to thank you Dave by the way I have been playing the game for a year and I have not found anything better than it. Whenever I feel bored I come here to have funand talking to you and my friends so thank you really so thank you very much

iykyk

CW games won
723

CW games lost
276

Geschrieben von El Serbio, 08.04.2025 at 07:24

As for xBugs—we played years ago when he was around rank 7. I'm not his biggest fan because his ego might actually be bigger than yours, but I can't deny he's smart and could do a lot to help the game. Did he cheat? Yes. Would he do it again if unbanned? I honestly don't think so. I don't even know if we'd end up playing again, but you get the point.

You lost all credibility when you said bugs should be unbanned. That unhinged freak has been perma banned for many years before Dave and should be forever.

"The enemy of my enemy is not my friend"

Any idea/movement bugs attaches himself to is wildly unserious. It's time you understand that.

He is not smart. He cannot create, only destroy.

He can hardly be considered an atwar player, he cheated as a rank 2 in 2017 and has been perma banned since, with short stints of playing under an alt. He is not a part of this community, drop it.

Asymmetric Warfare Scenario (Under Development)

Hello, I would like to introduce a brand new atWar game/scenario. It is called 'Asymmetric Warfare' (AW). The premise of the scenario is a hypothetical war between the United States (US) and Republic of China (Taiwan) on one hand, and the People's Republic of China (PRC) on the other. In this scenario, the 'war' starts when the PRC invades Taiwan.

Development of an atWar game/scenario was inspired by the Center for Strategic and International Studies or CSIS1. For those of you who are not familiar with CSIS, it is a highly respected, bipartisan, nonprofit policy research organization dedicated to advancing practical ideas to address the world's greatest challenges.2

In January 2023, CSIS released a comprehensive report that examines the results of several CSIS wargames in which the PRC attacks the island of Taiwan. The report is entitled: 'The First Battle of the Next War: Wargaming a Chinese Invasion of Taiwan'1. It is a fascinating read. For those of you who are interested, the full report is available for download at:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/first-battle-next-war-wargaming-chinese-invasion-taiwan

Asymmetric Warfare (AW):

There are two assumptions to the AW game/scenario. The first assumption is that Taiwan is attacked by the PRC. This effectively means that the PRC always has the first turn and that it, the PRC, is at war with Taiwan starting on turn one. The second assumption is that the United States responds to the PRC attack with military intervention. There is also the possibility that other regional belligerents will become involved in and participate in the scenario as well.

Once the basic assumptions are identified, it will be necessary to define the game/scenario itself. This involves identifying which countries will be considered belligerents and, by definition, included in the scenario. Belligerents may include Australia, Iran, Japan, Malaysia, North Korea, the Philippines, Russia, Singapore, South Korea and Vietnam. It is assumed that Taiwan, the PRC and the US are all belligerents and therefore included in the scenario. The number of players will be defined by the number of belligerents, so there will be a minimum of 3 players: Taiwan, the US and the PRC, to as many as 12 players if each country is assigned a player. Based on this, the game looks very much like it could be a game of two or more teams. So, for example, the game could be a two team game with the US and Taiwan battling the PRC. Or, it could be a multiple team game if India and Russia are included as separate teams.

Defining the game/scenario will also define which US bases are included. For example, Japan has 14 US military bases, the Philippines has 9 US military bases and South Korea has 8 US bases. There are also several bases located in Australia as well as Wake Island which is a large US protectorate and military air base. It is also necessary to define the unit types for each country including unit names, cost to build, combat strengths (attack and defence), hit points, range (movement allowance), transport capacity and collateral damage etc. These are all unit properties familiar to seasoned atWar players. There is also a requirement to define at which turn in the scenario a particular unit type is available. This will mostly apply to US units. For example, it is unlikely that all, or even most, of the US Aircraft Carriers will be available to the US on turn one of the scenario. Similarly there are going to be other US units that arrive as reinforcements after turn one.

The next requirement is to define the Order of Battle of the units including their start points or locations on turn one. There are several web pages that identify current locations of military units. One example of this is a web page called the US Navy Warships Tracker.

The final requirement is to define the Resource Centre locations and income levels for all cities, military (land) bases, naval bases, air bases and other resource locations included in the game/scenario. For example, there are Russian oil resources centres available to the PRC along the Russian border. Unlike most of the atWar games, there will be significant forces available to each side on turn one. There will also be a limited number of units that can be built each build turn as reinforcements. Resource Centres will also define which units can be produced in a particular resource centre and which units can not. For example, F-35 Lightning II units can not be produced in PRC resource centres.

Finally, my goal in developing the Asymmetric Warfare is to develop a game/scenario that is as accurate as possible. There is no balance to this game. It is very obvious from what I have read so far that the US is superior in every way to the PRC both in the number of units at the start of the game, production capacity (resources) as well as the ability to build units (reinforcements) during the game. Having said this, the continental US is a long way from Taiwan, more than 10,000 kilometers, while China is extremely close to Taiwan at less than 160 kilometers. This is a huge discrepancy and one that the PRC will need to exploit if they are to be successful.

If you have thoughts or suggestions on the game/scenario and its design, let me know either by a Reply or by atWar message.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Commodus, Founding Leader, Niki

1. The First Battle of the Next War: Wargaming a Chinese Invasion of Taiwan, Center for Strategic and International Studies, page 1.
2. The First Battle of the Next War: Wargaming a Chinese Invasion of Taiwan, Center for Strategic and International Studies, page 3.

I want to compare this situation to another game, from a business perspective.

There was a Yu-Gi-Oh-style game hosted by a Canadian developer that had a really promising feature everyone was excited about when it first launched in beta. But for five years, that feature remained in beta, never fully released—just a few teaser images of how it might look. Just like this game, it had a great community, but also its share of issues. People got banned, and over time the game slowly died out. The owner had the same ego and vision you seem to have. And guess what happened? Konami released a new version, and the original developer had to shut down his game—bad leadership, slow updates, and a dying player base took it down.

This game is giving me the same vibes. A developer with a big ego, no major updates in years, a fading community... Don't be surprised if someone else creates a similar game and everything people invested here becomes worthless.

We can disagree on many things, but one thing's clear: the current state of the game is awful, and we all see it.

I understand you might not have the time to work on new features.
I understand you may not want to unban certain players for what they did—but it's been three years.

At the very least, you can try to save the community and give this game a second chance to grow again.

As for xBugs—we played years ago when he was around rank 7. I'm not his biggest fan because his ego might actually be bigger than yours, but I can't deny he's smart and could do a lot to help the game. Did he cheat? Yes. Would he do it again if unbanned? I honestly don't think so. I don't even know if we'd end up playing again, but you get the point.

And Pavle? He's no saint either. He used the range bug (a cheat), and nothing happened. I even beat him 2:1 in a tourney, and he accused me of lying and claimed it was 1:1—even though I had all the evidence. Still, he remained a support and never got banned.

Here's my suggestion:
Do a hard reset. Unban everyone. Give people a second chance. Try to revive the community, because you're not attracting new players—and even if you do, without the experienced ones around, the game will feel empty and boring to newcomers.

Geschrieben von Dave, 07.04.2025 at 06:41

Geschrieben von Kaska, 06.04.2025 at 12:29

First of all waffel, you dont know shit about the reasons i resigned. You dont know shit about the way I was as a mod, what m'y opinions are or what I was saying in mod forum

I dont want to argue with you, but your perception of m'y rôle in atwar décline IS Silly

Me having a Big mouth might be a problem but i had nothing to do with most of the décisions that provoked this décline. Ask Nero if you dont trust me. I Never permabanned anyone (except one Guy who was IP fishing).

That being said, it was a mistake to ban all these players due to spam and forum posts, perman ban waffel or chill guys liké Lion was wrong, even Lao who i Never liked, Never deserved that treatment, to Say thé least.

It's another mistake to keep the bans now, general pardon IS needed

Dave it's Time to show that you have a big heart and let this nerds enjoy a truly Amazing game and sherish their souvenirs.

Kaska you're my favorite Frenchman on atWar, but I still can't agree with you.

To be honest I don't even remember banning Waffel, but I guess I must have. As you can see I haven't banned his alt or even deleted his messages, even though they are dumb. I'm tolerating his presence.

What Lion did was unforgivable. Not only did he break my trust, he's made no compensation for the damage he caused. He did apologize which I appreciated, but that didn't undo the damage. So I really can't believe how you support him.

As for the rest, there are really very few people who we bother to keep out of here. I know several who were either banned back in 2021, or deleted their own accounts, who have come back on alts. As long as they don't bother anybody I look the other way and let them play. Not everybody, but several.

They painting you out to be this evil guy who won't change his mind about banned players when it is simply not true. You and the mods didn't have to remove my permaban back during the pandemic, but you did

It literally never happened before, also I reached rank 11

It really is time to bring back Laochra, but please ban Waffle even harder, we don't need that parasite lurking around and looking for pathetic execuses to demand attention. That parasite literally did nothing for 9 years

Well sorry to tell you this Dave but youre making a Big mistake here.

Whole Qanon community is so obsessed with Trump as savior, while he is actually the SATAN PERSONALY!

Geschrieben von Dave, 07.04.2025 at 17:02

Geschrieben von Palmitas, 07.04.2025 at 16:06

He apologized and it was one moment that resulted in nothing as it was all saved in a backup.

There was no backup of Discord. He permanently deleted it. All those years of content are gone forever. That's not "nothing".

The fucking audacity to ONLY reply to that part of my message and ignore the entirety of it, aswell as the other one. It feels like im talking to a brick wall.

w.e, I know making you angry will not help in any shape or form to get what we, as a community, want from you. Which seems simple, but apparently isn't. I'm really getting on my nerves (Croat style)

I miss ivan and Amok , game went to shit

Well, this thread has certainly gained traction.

This is my (unwarranted?) two cents on the issue. Working in law has given me insight into the impulse to punish as a means of deterrence, which is entirely valid. Historically, punishment has been regarded as the most effective way to discourage unwanted behavior.

However, the legal system also incorporates statutes of limitations for good reason. If we imprisoned people indefinitely, our correctional facilities would quickly reach capacity.
After 4-5 years, it's reasonable to conclude that the point has been made. While punishments help maintain social order, second chances make our communities more humane and livable.

The competitive community is barely surviving, and realistically, extending second chances to players might breathe new life into what once united enthusiasts across the board. You can always reinstate bans if necessary, but taking a measured risk to improve the game's ecosystem seems like a reasonable gamble.

Consider that growth often comes from our willingness to reevaluate rigid positions. The strongest communities aren't those that punish forever, but those that create pathways for genuine rehabilitation and reintegration. At some point, we must ask ourselves what matters more: maintaining the permanence of old decisions or fostering an environment where people can demonstrate they've changed. The game's future might depend on our answer.

Looks cool, Ill check it out

Geschrieben von Acidus, 24.03.2025 at 11:05

Geschrieben von b2spirit, 17.03.2025 at 03:16

(D*ve's fault)

LMFAO
man idk what happened to the game in these last few years but this is so funny

its somehow still on life support