SCENERIO Tourney Problems

Hi, before Hosting my second project on Large Scale I would like to hear from you guys what major Problems you guys face, your suggestions and how it should work , what Rewards should be there, what kind of maps you would prefer; for suggestion just write map maker name only thanks.

Geschrieben von Ivan., 27.06.2021 at 04:52

Hi, before Hosting my second project on Large Scale I would like to hear from you guys what major Problems you guys face, your suggestions and how it should work , what Rewards should be there, what kind of maps you would prefer; for suggestion just write map maker name only thanks.

It took such a long time, i got bored because of that and stopped playing tourney matches
It should at least end in max in a month

You should notify people of when things are happening. I stopped helping in your last tourney because I didn't know what was happening when even if it was on the forum.. there wasn't very much coordination. Even for it being on Discord as well.


Also maybe a bit more organized?

2 major problems I faced:
I had to prove that I had one more win score.
Every tournament game takes 4-5 hours average, perhaps make smaller ones sometimes because when it occupied every Sunday, it was like 3 months imprisonment.

About maps I prefer... Currently DireWarlord's maps are the best, they are about your intelligence and fast adaptation skills. Other maps we played were like education system; if you didn't study for 10 hours, you're fucked.

Geschrieben von Mobster, 27.06.2021 at 08:12

Other maps we played were like education system; if you didn't study for 10 hours, you're fucked.

well this is not the problem on fair you were given Coach to consult for whole week, if you did not reached him out or he did not reached you out that's another story I even asked every one if they wish their coach to be changed and even I changed for many players.
second fantasy maps are surely easily adaptable and you need no prior knowledge about events and stuffs but Ancient Historical maps they are considered Gold Tiers among scenerio Community that's why you were assigned coach.

Geschrieben von Alois, 27.06.2021 at 07:50

well I agree, for coming new Project I will make a team who will make sure to organise it in good manner thanks for your views.

Geschrieben von Metyu, 27.06.2021 at 05:36

Noted but scenerios are not like world map settings they takes time commitment for every person to be on exact time for next 4-5 hours.
I got your point and what you mean thanks for your views.

Geschrieben von Ivan., 27.06.2021 at 08:54

Geschrieben von Mobster, 27.06.2021 at 08:12

Other maps we played were like education system; if you didn't study for 10 hours, you're fucked.

well this is not the problem on fair you were given Coach to consult for whole week, if you did not reached him out or he did not reached you out that's another story I even asked every one if they wish their coach to be changed and even I changed for many players.
second fantasy maps are surely easily adaptable and you need no prior knowledge about events and stuffs but Ancient Historical maps they are considered Gold Tiers among scenerio Community that's why you were assigned coach.

Coaches surely helped alot, but I'm sure about my opinions. Sure I was purely negative in those sentences but in the other parts, I loved the tournament. Wish it goes well in the next one.

Pls make a colonial/GGG casual tourney

Scenarios can take a long time, playing multiple games a round will be tough on people. Perhaps follow the method croat has been using for those quick tourneys in the sense that its 1 game a round and finished fairly quickly. Pick perhaps a smaller scenario that is maybe a 3v3/4v4 or at most the famous trench stacking map as they're easier to fill.

Taz has had very successful tournaments by making them casual games. Perhaps you could do the same for these?

Geschrieben von PleaseMe, 27.06.2021 at 12:57

Taz has had very successful tournaments by making them casual games. Perhaps you could do the same for these?

unbalances a scenario. Its mostly 5min. If its 24 hour a turn. A faction which usually needs a hell lot more time, can be done perfectly. For example, Arnor in Lotr is unbeatable if it is 24 hour game.

Man a lot of good points covered already, alright so I'll give my two cents, starting from the top.

I agree tournaments should not be extremely long and they need to be paced to keep players involved. Typically one game should be held every single week, two games a week if you have a very active tournament group. With a large tournament group, it is okay if the tournament takes about 2-3 months but that is as long as the players are constantly active and playing games. This must be done with proper organization and clarity of rules, teams, and reminders,. The best way to have this is having dedicated leaders of player groups. FFA tournaments are better done with smaller groups, short tournaments or in a casual setting. It is better to hold teams together for larger groups so that you can have leaders act as the dedicated line of communication between players and you, the tournament host.

Now, scenario tournaments do in fact, have a slight problem of being very difficult to play casual. This ranges form the risk of players sharing accounts so that the best player is playing every single pick on the map, to, as mentioned already, the fact that very few scenario maps are built for casual gameplay. As mentioned already, some spots on maps are intentionally made to be very hard to play in 5 minutes to really show off skill and balance out spots that are meant to be very powerful.

Taz however had a strong hold on casual tournaments and the key to them was picking maps that do not require the 5 minute crunch time or that an extended time turns would benefit all sides equally. In addition, he would get all players to join and pick their spots BEFORE starting the game. This ensured all events t1 would spawn properly and players could play multiple games at once. I will let the community debate what these maps may be.

Now to focus on colonial/GGG games: RP maps are not equivalent to scenario maps. I know I might get backlash from this, but the main focus of scenario tournaments are to show of strength of the sword and not the pen. Though RP maps are often very detailed, massive and can be fun for the right group, they do not do a great job with showing off teamwork and the art of war. However, should one wish to set up clear rules of teams and balance, one could attempt to hold such a tournament but you would have to make it casual play since its not easy getting 15-20 people playing several five minute turns for a long time on a massive map.

And now to what maps work for scenario tournaments. Though I do appreciate the comments about how people feel my maps allow for strategy and do not require constant study to master, I would like to note that my maps are inspired by the works of other map makers who did teach me to be the map maker I am today. Maps made by aetius and pyrrhus were inspirations for many of my maps and often aspects of their work can be seen in my maps. For example Dawn of Chaos (DoC) was inspired by the work of Pyrrhus' Fourth Age (FA) in regards to the scale and global combat. Fall of Ulthuan was inspired by their works in the Rise of Rome series (RoR) with the aspect of intense, gritty, close combat with high speed combat. A recent map, Third Age: War in the North, was inspired by the works of Pyrrhus' Third Age: Lord of the Rings [Restored] and WHITE's Third Age: Two Towers. My point here is always make sure when hosting a general scenario tournament that you have maps that branch out into several different topics. Not everyone will get behind a single theme so it is best to try and hold a series of themes (unless your tournament is dedicated to a single theme like a full rome theme, or a Lord of the Rings theme) and some maps have gameplay that is very similar to other maps, just put in a different setting with different units and events.

None of this is easy. It is very hard to have a flawless tournament. Someone will drop, someone will be unable to play several games, and there will be bumps. Always plan for the worse so if the worse comes, your tournament can still go on.

Ah, the so called "emperors" of scenarios.

Let me rebut and argue each and every one of your observations.

> RP maps are not equivalent to scenario maps.

You are completely wrong, one thing are the Fappino style Roleplays and annexes that have been fought for so long and another very different thing the colonial maps or maps of a specific year. Lotar, Nifty and myself have tried to make this type of scenarios keeping them balanced and always with a specific focus that is competitive (For example, in one of the many GGG maps I have made there is the focus of Spanish Empire/French Empire vs British Empire and Portuguese Empire to give an example). Something that is also established as a rule in those scenarios is that it is FFA, so from my point of view they are perfect for casual tournaments.

>For example Dawn of Chaos (DoC) was inspired by the work of Pyrrhus' Fourth Age (FA) in regards to the scale and global combat. Fall of Ulthuan was inspired by their works in the Rise of Rome series (RoR) with the aspect of intense, gritty, close combat with high speed combat. A recent map, Third Age: War in the North, was inspired by the works of Pyrrhus' Third Age: Lord of the Rings [Restored] and WHITE's Third Age: Two Towers.

I have played all the Aetius/phyrrhus scenarios and I can tell you one thing, they are not at all easy to play for a novice AtWar player. For example, in the Third Age Restores scenario I highly doubt a newbie would go to the trouble of using the "hero" unit to unlock the additional cities. And it goes hand in hand with my previous point, the colonial/GGG and similar maps are about attacking or defending and that's it; in all those you mention you have to know at least some of the lore from the movies/novels and even understand what each unit does which makes it heavy. At least in the scenarios based on LOTR it is like that, in the scenarios of Aetius/Phyrrhus that are of ancient ages, the fall of Rome and similar at least are easier to understand and the almost universal rule (which is not written anywhere, but is decisive to follow in almost all those maps) is to be imperialist as a strategy because of how expensive regular units and elites are.

TL;DR; the best for a tournament would be with a colonial type scenario, old world and with custom maps of the ones we have in FFA mode.

Geschrieben von Ivan., 27.06.2021 at 08:54

Geschrieben von Mobster, 27.06.2021 at 08:12

Other maps we played were like education system; if you didn't study for 10 hours, you're fucked.

well this is not the problem on fair you were given Coach to consult for whole week, if you did not reached him out or he did not reached you out that's another story I even asked every one if they wish their coach to be changed and even I changed for many players.
second fantasy maps are surely easily adaptable and you need no prior knowledge about events and stuffs but Ancient Historical maps they are considered Gold Tiers among scenerio Community that's why you were assigned coach.

Coaching does not give you experience or the confidence to make risky moves. This point is mute.

Geschrieben von Asylan, 28.06.2021 at 05:01

Geschrieben von Ivan., 27.06.2021 at 08:54

Geschrieben von Mobster, 27.06.2021 at 08:12

Other maps we played were like education system; if you didn't study for 10 hours, you're fucked.

well this is not the problem on fair you were given Coach to consult for whole week, if you did not reached him out or he did not reached you out that's another story I even asked every one if they wish their coach to be changed and even I changed for many players.
second fantasy maps are surely easily adaptable and you need no prior knowledge about events and stuffs but Ancient Historical maps they are considered Gold Tiers among scenerio Community that's why you were assigned coach.

Coaching does not give you experience or the confidence to make risky moves. This point is mute.

sure it does not but it gives you view of Experienced player regarding map, key points, holdings for new players rest is upto him how he plays.

Geschrieben von I_Hate_You_All, 27.06.2021 at 22:03

Ah, the so called "emperors" of scenarios.

Let me rebut and argue each and every one of your observations.

> RP maps are not equivalent to scenario maps.

You are completely wrong, one thing are the Fappino style Roleplays and annexes that have been fought for so long and another very different thing the colonial maps or maps of a specific year. Lotar, Nifty and myself have tried to make this type of scenarios keeping them balanced and always with a specific focus that is competitive (For example, in one of the many GGG maps I have made there is the focus of Spanish Empire/French Empire vs British Empire and Portuguese Empire to give an example). Something that is also established as a rule in those scenarios is that it is FFA, so from my point of view they are perfect for casual tournaments.

>For example Dawn of Chaos (DoC) was inspired by the work of Pyrrhus' Fourth Age (FA) in regards to the scale and global combat. Fall of Ulthuan was inspired by their works in the Rise of Rome series (RoR) with the aspect of intense, gritty, close combat with high speed combat. A recent map, Third Age: War in the North, was inspired by the works of Pyrrhus' Third Age: Lord of the Rings [Restored] and WHITE's Third Age: Two Towers.

I have played all the Aetius/phyrrhus scenarios and I can tell you one thing, they are not at all easy to play for a novice AtWar player. For example, in the Third Age Restores scenario I highly doubt a newbie would go to the trouble of using the "hero" unit to unlock the additional cities. And it goes hand in hand with my previous point, the colonial/GGG and similar maps are about attacking or defending and that's it; in all those you mention you have to know at least some of the lore from the movies/novels and even understand what each unit does which makes it heavy. At least in the scenarios based on LOTR it is like that, in the scenarios of Aetius/Phyrrhus that are of ancient ages, the fall of Rome and similar at least are easier to understand and the almost universal rule (which is not written anywhere, but is decisive to follow in almost all those maps) is to be imperialist as a strategy because of how expensive regular units and elites are.

TL;DR; the best for a tournament would be with a colonial type scenario, old world and with custom maps of the ones we have in FFA mode.

This is why I said with the right group and proper rules, an RP map would work. It's just going to be hard to do with such a reduced player base. A colonial casual could have been perfect during the time of the pandemic and you'd probably get 50+ players. I wasn't trying to disagree with RPs to seem like a god amount scenarios, just showing that in the typical scenario world today in atwar, non-rp scenarios are played more. It's hard to get an rp map to fill so making a tournament on it will not be easy.