Rewalling - History lesson game mechanics: Do you know why you can wf?

Another short lesson in history, because it has turned out to be true that every new generation of atWar players needs to learn about this:

A long time ago, it was possible to create virtually unbreakable walls. This was the case because walls could be created even with enemy units nearby, meaning you could move your wall units away, and re-create the wall from within the walled city. Since these walls were unbreakable as long as you had reinforcements left in the city, we called this tactic wallglitching and it was widely considered a bug.

This is the reason that wallmechanics were changed so walls would no longer form when enemy units are placed nearby, i.e. enter wallfucking. Note here that wallfucking was introduced to prevent wallglitching, not to give you the possibility to randomly prevent your enemy from walling his cities, which nonetheless has become so common that players don't even think about it.

Now for new players who consider rewalling an exploit, I want you to try and think about this objectively: When you are given a new mechanic (wallfucking) to prevent a glitch (wallglitching) then how can you justify:
1. Using this new mechanic for a purpose it wasn't originally intended for (namely the prevention of walls around previously unwalled cities, think sending one inf next to Paris turn 1 as Germany, or wfing an enemy-held city which is not yet walled)
but at the same time
2. Demanding that people do not use the now non-buggy mechanic (rewalling) which was the sole purpose for the implementation of wallfucking?

Do you see that this makes no sense considering the history of the mechanics?
If you truly believe that rewalling is 'unfair' or 'cheap', then the same thing goes for wallfucking. The only reason you even have the possibility to prevent enemy walls from being built is that you should use this to counter rewalling. It is a 1-2 unit-cost counter to a 3 unit-cost mechanic.
Strictly speaking, you should not wallfuck at all if not to prevent rewalling.

Tl;dr:
- wallfucking was introduced to counter wallglitch/rewall
- if you don't want others to rewall but yourself wallfuck neutrals or unwalled cities then you are a hypocrite, because you are using a game mechanic for something it was not intended for

Thank you for this well said clarification.
rewall is nowadays just a excuse for people to justify why they lost the game , even when it doesnt happen and they have got turn blocked or something like that
they could simply wallfucked it and prevented it.
it was a glitch but it isnt anymore . it has been fixed for a long time.

The thing that scares me the most is why Same upvoted this guy... makes no sense though, it is just an excuse to play dirty and the fact that you just made this to try coming clean with a list of bullshits to prove your point won't help you much but proves my point. At this stage I repeat there's not much difference than wall fucking t1, but don't worry with the pace we are taking here, you dirty and unfair players will get that accepted too. Because technically that's game mechanic as well. Keep to yourself that bullshit that you spend three units while the enemy just spends two to break and wf because it don't hold.

I'm gonna get an admin to make rewalling forbidden.

Geschrieben von SHEIKH, 01.04.2020 at 18:43

the fact that you just made this to try coming clean with a list of bullshits to prove your point won't help you much but proves my point.

I don't even know how to respond to this. Try to read my post again and understand what I'm saying. Then you can point out where specifically I am wrong in your opinion and provide counterarguments. Right now you're just throwing random things at me.

Geschrieben von SHEIKH, 01.04.2020 at 18:43

At this stage I repeat there's not much difference than wall fucking t1, but don't worry with the pace we are taking here, you dirty and unfair players will get that accepted too. Because technically that's game mechanic as well.

I explained why there is a difference in the other thread, and the only thing you came up with as a response was to post my avatar. What does that even mean?

Geschrieben von SHEIKH, 01.04.2020 at 18:43

Keep to yourself that bullshit that you spend three units while the enemy just spends two to break and wf because it don't hold.

What do you mean by it doesn't hold? This is exactly what is happening when countering a rewall. You can't just create your own reality without substantiating your claims.

Geschrieben von SHEIKH, 01.04.2020 at 18:43

I'm gonna get an admin to make rewalling forbidden.

You really didn't read my post, did you? If rewalling was 'forbidden', then the game mechanics could be reasonably rolled back to wfing not being possible at all.
Anyways good luck on your mission, I really tried my best here to explain this to you but at this point it's clear that you don't want to have a discussion or argue rationally for your position. I haven't seen a single attempt at an argument made by you besides claims that 'it is unfair', 'people say it is forbidden', and insulting me as a person. That's no basis for a discussion.

If you can take anything from what this guy has said it is if you are versing someone that you believe recalls then all you simply gotta do is WF and break the walls at the same time.

Geschrieben von SHEIKH, 01.04.2020 at 18:43

The thing that scares me the most is why Same upvoted this guy... makes no sense though, it is just an excuse to play dirty and the fact that you just made this to try coming clean with a list of bullshits to prove your point won't help you much but proves my point. At this stage I repeat there's not much difference than wall fucking t1, but don't worry with the pace we are taking here, you dirty and unfair players will get that accepted too. Because technically that's game mechanic as well. Keep to yourself that bullshit that you spend three units while the enemy just spends two to break and wf because it don't hold.

I'm gonna get an admin to make rewalling forbidden.

Tbh, I didn't see any reasoning in this post. At least his thread made sense to me and he had given enough of examples why this shouldn't be illegal. And I myself, don't use rewalling in game but if one day, it becomes legal, Why should I hesitate to use it?

Are u saying that rewalling should be legal

Geschrieben von BLACKMETAL3199, 02.04.2020 at 04:06

Are u saying that rewalling should be legal

This game is flooded by zoomers with an infinitesimal attention span. Easily 50% of the people don't even read the OP but just start posting images based on two words they saw in the previous post.
Do not ask questions you can answer for yourself by reading the opening post.

Geschrieben von SuperiorCacaocow, 02.04.2020 at 04:24

Geschrieben von BLACKMETAL3199, 02.04.2020 at 04:06

Are u saying that rewalling should be legal

This game is flooded by zoomers with an infinitesimal attention span. Easily 50% of the people don't even read the OP but just start posting images based on two words they saw in the previous post.
Do not ask questions you can answer for yourself by reading the opening post.

i dont want to hear anything about rewall. we dont accept it as a game mechanic. only dirty players like huarck do it because hes trash. if u wall somewhere then wait it to be broken. dont try dirty things. thanks!

Geschrieben von BLACKMETAL3199, 02.04.2020 at 04:30

i dont want to hear anything about rewall. we dont accept it as a game mechanic. only dirty players like huarck do it because hes trash. if u wall somewhere then wait it to be broken. dont try dirty things. thanks!

Read the post. If you don't want rewalling then you shouldn't wallfuck either.
Read, understand what I explained, and then try to make a coherent argument based on the historical facts I gave you. I included a tl;dr to make it easier for you.

Mmmm i really dont understand ... rewalling was forbidden cuz it was broken .. a glitch .. something u cant deal with if the target city has a lot of reinforcements .. but now that wallfucking countered it, its not broken anymore ... so it should be legal to use ... and wallfucking should be legal too .. its a tactic .. a mechanic .. a strategic play .. maybe not on t1 .. but the rest of the game its just a smart play ... I think both rewalling and wallfucking should be legal .. they are just game tactics .. just a humble opinion!

Rewalling isn't a bug

It's just that preventing rewalling is a mechanical process that doesn't require skill, and we don't want to waste our time doing such a thing, so we disallow rewalling

Waste ur time? by sending one unit to prevent rewalling?

Geschrieben von LukeTan, 02.04.2020 at 10:53

Rewalling isn't a bug

It's just that preventing rewalling is a mechanical process that doesn't require skill, and we don't want to waste our time doing such a thing, so we disallow rewalling

The skill is in anticipating which cities are likely to be be rewalled.
You are also 'wasting your time' on wallfucking neutrals, or unwalled enemy-held cities. Or can you explain to me how the latter requires more skill than preventing rewalling?

I have read the post and thanks for the history lesson superior. Too many persons argue without any logic, while I may be new; based solely on the information you presented here; if indeed it is accurate, I would be inclined to agree with you. That being said I try to follow the "rules" for time being.

Thank you Cow someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

Anyways regardless of the technical aspects of why rewalling should be technically possible and accepted, we should just accept that the vast majority don't see it as respectful play. What gets me is when your ally walls you knowing your wall will be broken and opponents moan - thats just good teamplay to me and would be applauded on any other game.

What we have tbh is a watered down version of atwar as a result - the skill bar would be to high for majority of the so called pros if all mechanics were useable.

btw I actually think 'palace walls' are fucking worse, at least you can counter a rewall / serb wall if you have half a brain.

Sorry cow but imo these mechanics shouldn't work this way. I consider it a bug.

When you link 2 groups of units by a wall, they become a single stack for the purpose of defence. They should act the same as stacks within a city. If you attempt to break a wall and the opponent intends to rewall.

1. Assuming youve priority the wall units should be tbable.
2. If not the wf should move to the position where the wall existed.

Neither of these things happen. Instead the wf doesnt move. I highly doubt ivan and amok intended this as a feature. But i'm guessing it's a real pain to fix, hence why they gave us the wf patch.

I must stress this is my opinion. Maybe it all is as ivan/amok intended. Anyway I usually dont rewall but i will spam it vs opponents who do(like huarck).

Death to rewallers and rp wallers.

Geschrieben von Permamuted, 02.04.2020 at 12:40

Sorry cow but imo these mechanics shouldn't work this way. I consider it a bug.

When you link 2 groups of units by a wall, they become a single stack for the purpose of defence. They should act the same as stacks within a city. If you attempt to break a wall and the opponent intends to rewall.

1. Assuming youve priority the wall units should be tbable.
2. If not the wf should move to the position where the wall existed.

Neither of these things happen. Instead the wf doesnt move. I highly doubt ivan and amok intended this as a feature. But i'm guessing it's a real pain to fix, hence why they gave us the wf patch.

I must stress this is my opinion. Maybe it all is as ivan/amok intended. Anyway I usually dont rewall but i will spam it vs opponents who do(like huarck).

Thank god we have got Laochra. He said it all, if Dave can fix that the wf unit don't get tbed when you rewall, then u can rewall all you want because it will be useless.

Geschrieben von Permamuted, 02.04.2020 at 12:40

Sorry cow but imo these mechanics shouldn't work this way. I consider it a bug.

When you link 2 groups of units by a wall, they become a single stack for the purpose of defence. They should act the same as stacks within a city. If you attempt to break a wall and the opponent intends to rewall.

1. Assuming youve priority the wall units should be tbable.
2. If not the wf should move to the position where the wall existed.

Neither of these things happen. Instead the wf doesnt move. I highly doubt ivan and amok intended this as a feature. But i'm guessing it's a real pain to fix, hence why they gave us the wf patch.

No. If I understand your example correctly, then this is because you use your wf unit to actually attack the wall.
To prevent a rewall you use two units, moved separately. One to break the wall, and one to wf. The former tbs the wall, the latter prevents the new wall from being built.
If I misunderstood you then please elaborate.

Geschrieben von Mesopotamia, 02.04.2020 at 10:57

Waste ur time? by sending one unit to prevent rewalling?

yes , dont waste your time , instead make tons of rules and honor codes and make cry threads in forum .
which is all worth the time