Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
The Soviet Union collapsed
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
The more liberal states in the US, like California, are failing. More conservative states, like Texas, are booming
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
The Soviet Union collapsed
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
The more liberal states in the US, like California, are failing. More conservative states, like Texas, are booming
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
The first question: What do you mean by Socialism?
The second question: What do you mean by Capitalism?
The third question: IF China has an 'iron fist capitalist economy' how is it different from 'non-iron fist' capitalist economies? What exactly is an iron fist capitalist economy?
The fourth question: What are other notable 'iron fist capitalist economies'?
The fifth question: What are notable 'non-iron fist capitalist economies'
And finally: How would you characterize economy of Norway, if it isn't socialist?
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
The Soviet Union collapsed
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
The more liberal states in the US, like California, are failing. More conservative states, like Texas, are booming
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
If I understand you correctly, 'Communism' is only the name for Socialism in the USSR/China/Vietnam. Is this correct?
Zitat:
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
That's because Socialism is first and foremost designed to serve the people and seeks to make their lifes better. Capitalism only serves the rich, while still making the lifes of at least the middle class more enjoyable.
You mention Greece, Italy and cite socialism as their doom. At the same time you forbid mentioning Sweden and Norway because they aren't socialist. Can you explain to me how these two countries are less socialist than Greece and Italy?
Also, I got news for you about Germany: we have a mixture of capitalist and socialist economy. It's called social market economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
Just as Norway and Sweden we are much, much more socialist than Greece and Italy have ever been. By your logic the north of Europe should look like the south economy-wise.
The problem about Socialism has always been it's implemention. So far it had mostly been tried by the wrong people for the wrong reason. It has been sold to the poor by mobsters to gain power over them, just like religion before that. If you take the other approach to it, a proper democratic one, it is just as valid as capitalism and can work just as fine. Maybe a socialist society won't be as ultra progressive and productive as a capitalist one, but personally I'd take it any day over the mess we're currently living in.
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
That's because Socialism is first and foremost designed to serve the people and seeks to make their lifes better. Capitalism only serves the rich, while still making the lifes of at least the middle class more enjoyable.
You mention Greece, Italy and cite socialism as their doom. At the same time you forbid mentioning Sweden and Norway because they aren't socialist. Can you explain to me how these two countries are less socialist than Greece and Italy?
Also, I got news for you about Germany: we have a mixture of capitalist and socialist economy. It's called social market economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
Just as Norway and Sweden we are much, much more socialist than Greece and Italy have ever been. By your logic the north of Europe should look like the south economy-wise.
The problem about Socialism has always been it's implemention. So far it had mostly been tried by the wrong people for the wrong reason. It has been sold to the poor by mobsters to gain power over them, just like religion before that. If you take the other approach to it, a proper democratic one, it is just as valid as capitalism and can work just as fine. Maybe a socialist society won't be as ultra progressive and productive as a capitalist one, but personally I'd take it any day over the mess we're currently living in.
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
The Soviet Union collapsed
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
The more liberal states in the US, like California, are failing. More conservative states, like Texas, are booming
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
The first question: What do you mean by Socialism?
The second question: What do you mean by Capitalism?
The third question: IF China has an 'iron fist capitalist economy' how is it different from 'non-iron fist' capitalist economies? What exactly is an iron fist capitalist economy?
The fourth question: What are other notable 'iron fist capitalist economies'?
The fifth question: What are notable 'non-iron fist capitalist economies'
And finally: How would you characterize economy of Norway, if it isn't socialist?
I don't think I need to define socialism and capitalism here. Judging by the way I worded this, you can see what I meant by each
By iron fist capitalism, I am simply referring to a capitalist economy in a non-democratic country. Other notable examples would be some rising African countries. Likewise, a non-iron fist capitalist economy would be a democratic country with a capitalist economy.
The economy of Norway is capitalist with social programs.
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Socialism lost just one battle in the war against capitalism. War continues. There are Socialist China, Socialist Vietnam, Socialist Laos, Socialist Korea, Socialist Cuba. And capitalist countries have socialist parameters as well(state hospitals, state schools, state college, state libraries, infrastructure, state military).
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
Venezuelan economy recovered when Chavez nationalized companies owned by foreigners who drained the country dry. If they use rationing today that would be due to civil unrest by all those new presidential campaign protests.
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
In NK everyone have home, no crime, free healthcare, free education, free library access, strong military to protect the nation.
In SK 15% of the population is bellow poverty line, crime exist, workers always worried about their medical care and wages which depends on ''boss'' to pay them every 1st in the month, and no one to protect the working class.
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
Because West Germany made 15238445 companies and invited gastarbeiters from 1950 to 1990 and worked 20h daily to produce cars and consumers product to sell on the world market. East Germany worked 8h daily, decent wage, no crime, no pollution. While west germans were exhausted by working and couldnt even talk to their children after the work but only hit the bed east germans had fun with their families after humane working hours going to the family hutte in the forest enjoying nature and playing with children.
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
China converted its economy to liberal capitalistic, its politics are still socialist. I dont know what you meant by ''iron fist'', that sound more american as in america entrepreneurship is strangled, not allowed to start new work unless bribe or give percentage to stronger company already doing businesses on that economic field. Or you risk them to sue you and took your life savings which will make you bankrutp and your family break apart.
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
Around 100 million has been killed by capitalism. Slaughtered africans on cotton fields, tortured indians for not collecting tea quotas, butchered red indians to make space for capitalist factories and cities.
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Greed eat greece apart. They didnt payed taxes so state left without money for infranstructure, subsidies or anything else. While greeks are rich state is poor and unable to maintain the country. Thats why STATE collapsed but greeks are still rich, buying cars, cellphones, houses, spending endless cash on gambling and in caffes every night. Of course that wont last because there is already uneployment, when they hit 0$ panic will occur and there will be mass emmigration.
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
Socialist lost one battle, it didnt lost the war. We support socialism because it prevents groups like politica, economical, religious, masons to get rich and rule the working class - class which support whole country and nation.
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
Scandinavian states have mixed economies. State companies and private ownership both.
I dont have to point at them, though i can. I can point at USA, state libraries, state infranstructure, state army, state schools, state tax system, state politics. Why you think USA is different than other socialist states?
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
tunder3? isnt he that banned player who hates on jews and boast nazism? Yep, true commentator and analytics for communist achievements.
===
First 30 minutes of this video will show you why we fight against capitalism.
Capitalist countries having some universal programs doesn't mean they are close to socialist. Unless you are laissez faire, you generally support certain social programs that you feel the government is responsible for.
The economy recovered after Chavez came to power--poorly. Inflation was massively high, companies avoided Venezuela due to the government stealing property, and the only thing that kept their economy going was oil.
In North Korea, people are starving. They rely on foreign aid and they have a low life expectancy, some reports show they resort to cannibalism there. Meanwhile, South Koreans experience one of the highest life expectancies in the world.
In GDR, there is a reason they had a revolution and wanted to emigrate. It wasn't because they had richer lives.
Source on the capitalism.
There is a reason people didn't want to pay taxes in Greece, they are too high.
- Public healthcare
- Public education
- Social security
- Public transport system
- Minimum wage
- State companies
- Full employment
Yeah, socialism is a total failure...
----
"Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms".
- Public healthcare
- Public education
- Social security
- Public transport system
- Minimum wage
- State companies
- Full employment
Yeah, socialism is a total failure...
Public healthcare is fine as long as you have an option of private as well, like Australia has. America's healthcare isn't that bad if you care to look more into it.
Public education isn't socialism, it is government responsibility. I am not laissez faire
No problem with social security to an extent
Muh roads
Minimum wage excludes those who aren't worth the minimum wage
State companies are bad
Source on full employment
Capitalist countries having some universal programs doesn't mean they are close to socialist. Unless you are laissez faire, you generally support certain social programs that you feel the government is responsible for.
Many people doesnt know what they want, especially on the west. Like England, they had crisis after crisis and when Thatcher arrived and started privatizing state owned companies people revolted and started to trashtalk her. Did they know what they want? capitalism or communism? pick one. She privatized companies, used that money to repair infrastructure, pay welfare to certain folks who really needed and thus prolonged prosperity of english nation. Without her UK would still jump from one crisis to another because thats true face of capitalism.
She privatized what the government wasn't responsible for and spent more money on what government is responsible for. I don't see what point you are making here.
The economy recovered after Chavez came to power--poorly. Inflation was massively high, companies avoided Venezuela due to the government stealing property, and the only thing that kept their economy going was oil.
Of course poorly when USA and EU drained every resource of Venezuela and made profit of it for 200 years. Latest grab was venezuelan oil but thank god Chavez had balls and stood up for his country. After long period of colonization it need time to pass to reform and recover economy.
The only thing that keep saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar, uae economies going is oil. So saying that about Venezuela ONLY, is stupid.
Compare before thinking, calculate before posting.
Except standing up did nothing. Inflation was disastrous and the poor did not get helped at all. I'm not arguing about UAE and the Gulf nations, I'm not saying they are any better.
In North Korea, people are starving. They rely on foreign aid and they have a low life expectancy, some reports show they resort to cannibalism there. Meanwhile, South Koreans experience one of the highest life expectancies in the world.
NK is mountainous country, not much straight fields for agriculture and cattle. SK got all the fertile land. If they have famine thats their own failure on mismanagement, doesnt have to be socialism's fault. Always take the news from the west about the east with reserve, there is too much propaganda in it.
Famine was their own failure due to socialist economics. Central planning doesn't work.
There is a reason people didn't want to pay taxes in Greece, they are too high.
Wrong, taxes are average in Greece. Greeks just got too greedy and spoiled because their parents worked hard to make Greece decent for living after backwardness and poverty they lived before 1970. They are bribing state workers especially those who work around taxes so they avoid suing them. Better to bribe 500€ one man than to pay 3000€ every year and have only 67,000€ profit when you can have sweet round 70,000€ which you can spend on Mercedes or BMW last edition.
If they changed taxes and now theyre high that would be because they DIDNT pay till now and state need money to continue funding everything. They got what they deserve, now they have to work more, pay more taxes and live with less money until situation gets better. But i doubt it will get better as Germany(of course germans have to be involved, war or peace, germans have to poke) already gave 300,000,000€ fundings to Greek state and ordered them to implement harsh austerity which of course greeks wont follow and will rebel, fascism will raise to the surface, albanians will claim Epirus, macedonians will claim Thessaloniki, Germany will buy greek islands for cheap and make hotels to earn money and send german tourists there instead paying greeks anymore, turks will claim Trakia and thats how you got Greece, once the leader of the civilized world now in mud, vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations.
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
The Soviet Union collapsed
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
The more liberal states in the US, like California, are failing. More conservative states, like Texas, are booming
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
The first question: What do you mean by Socialism?
The second question: What do you mean by Capitalism?
The third question: IF China has an 'iron fist capitalist economy' how is it different from 'non-iron fist' capitalist economies? What exactly is an iron fist capitalist economy?
The fourth question: What are other notable 'iron fist capitalist economies'?
The fifth question: What are notable 'non-iron fist capitalist economies'
And finally: How would you characterize economy of Norway, if it isn't socialist?
I don't think I need to define socialism and capitalism here. Judging by the way I worded this, you can see what I meant by each
By iron fist capitalism, I am simply referring to a capitalist economy in a non-democratic country. Other notable examples would be some rising African countries. Likewise, a non-iron fist capitalist economy would be a democratic country with a capitalist economy.
The economy of Norway is capitalist with social programs.
You don't need to do anything, of course. If you don't want to provide definitions, ok. But seeing the way you worded what you said, I wanted to give you the opportunity to clarify your statements, especially the headline:
Zitat:
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
First and foremost, Socialism is a political and economic description. Capitalism only discusses an economic mode.
- If you state China is capitalist, I would disagree (unless about 50% of the economy being state-controlled, owned etc. is capitalist).
- If you state Norway is 'capitalist with social programs' - you're right, as long as you ignore the political system of Norway, and the high degree of state ownership and control of the economy and entire sectors. I don't ignore these, so I disagree there as well.
Modern China clearly began as a 'socialist' system (since you discount communism as socialsim) and now has the 2nd largest economy on the planet. It did this in 60 years.
The USSR began as a 'socialist' system, and was (arguably, as Russia, still is) the 2nd most powerful nation on the planet. It accomplished this in 30 years.
It took the United States almost 130 years to become the wealthiest and most powerful nation.
===
Now, you'll have to come up with some definitions of capitalism that don't mean "the economic model of private ownership and control of the means of production and distribution with the goal of making a profit in a market economy" if you want to continue to call China and Norway capitalist, and/or you'll need to redefine socialism as something other than "the economic and political model of social ownership and control of the means of production and distribution with the goal of meeting a socially-determined goal".
Running an enterprise for a profit has been the goal of many a merchant, farmer, government and craftsman for millenia before Marx and (Adam) Smith were born - so there's more to capitalism than that.
Heck, about 30% of the GDP of the USA comes from the activity of Federal, State and Local government.
Capitalist countries having some universal programs doesn't mean they are close to socialist. Unless you are laissez faire, you generally support certain social programs that you feel the government is responsible for.
Many people doesnt know what they want, especially on the west. Like England, they had crisis after crisis and when Thatcher arrived and started privatizing state owned companies people revolted and started to trashtalk her. Did they know what they want? capitalism or communism? pick one. She privatized companies, used that money to repair infrastructure, pay welfare to certain folks who really needed and thus prolonged prosperity of english nation. Without her UK would still jump from one crisis to another because thats true face of capitalism.
The economy recovered after Chavez came to power--poorly. Inflation was massively high, companies avoided Venezuela due to the government stealing property, and the only thing that kept their economy going was oil.
Of course poorly when USA and EU drained every resource of Venezuela and made profit of it for 200 years. Latest grab was venezuelan oil but thank god Chavez had balls and stood up for his country. After long period of colonization it need time to pass to reform and recover economy.
The only thing that keep saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar, uae economies going is oil. So saying that about Venezuela ONLY, is stupid.
Compare before thinking, calculate before posting.
In North Korea, people are starving. They rely on foreign aid and they have a low life expectancy, some reports show they resort to cannibalism there. Meanwhile, South Koreans experience one of the highest life expectancies in the world.
NK is mountainous country, not much straight fields for agriculture and cattle. SK got all the fertile land. If they have famine thats their own failure on mismanagement, doesnt have to be socialism's fault. Always take the news from the west about the east with reserve, there is too much propaganda in it.
There is a reason people didn't want to pay taxes in Greece, they are too high.
Wrong, taxes are average in Greece. Greeks just got too greedy and spoiled because their parents worked hard to make Greece decent for living after backwardness and poverty they lived before 1970. They are bribing state workers especially those who work around taxes so they avoid suing them. Better to bribe 500€ one man than to pay 3000€ every year and have only 67,000€ profit when you can have sweet round 70,000€ which you can spend on Mercedes or BMW last edition.
If they changed taxes and now theyre high that would be because they DIDNT pay till now and state need money to continue funding everything. They got what they deserve, now they have to work more, pay more taxes and live with less money until situation gets better. But i doubt it will get better as Germany(of course germans have to be involved, war or peace, germans have to poke) already gave 300,000,000€ fundings to Greek state and ordered them to implement harsh austerity which of course greeks wont follow and will rebel, fascism will raise to the surface, albanians will claim Epirus, macedonians will claim Thessaloniki, Germany will buy greek islands for cheap and make hotels to earn money and send german tourists there instead paying greeks anymore, turks will claim Trakia and thats how you got Greece, once the leader of the civilized world now in mud, vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations.
I have to say something about Greece, it's not as simple as you guys think it is. It isn't just "Greeks spent all their money, then they had to pay higher taxes and they didn't want to" Lol, no. Greece was in debt since it became a free country, Greece had to borrow money from UK during the revolution of 1821. When the first king, from Bavaria, came to Greece he (and the two second-in-command kings who ruled Greece before him) did a lot of things that made Greece waste a lot of money and they borrowed more money from foreign countries, therefore more debt. Greece then, after TWO more wars with the Ottoman Empire had to borrow more money, also had to borrow money from UK in order to pay the Ottoman Empire for the damages Greece did during the second war. After all these, Greece's only way to pay for the money it borrowed from other countries was to actually borrow MORE money. Hence, how it came to the situation it is in now.
What you said isn't actually true, Tito. Sorry, but no and don't believe to whatever TV says, just a ''pro-tip''. Oh, and before you say that I got offended by what you said and that's why I wrote all these; I didn't get offended, that would be stupid. I'm just pointing out some facts.
EDIT: "In NK everyone have home, no crime, free healthcare, free education, free library access, strong military to protect the nation."
And everyone is forced to have the same haircut as their president. LOL. My aunt has actually been to NK, it isn't bad at all, with a few exceptions.
EDIT2: Greece isn't really socialist, WTF are you talking about?
Wrong, taxes are average in Greece. Greeks just got too greedy and spoiled because their parents worked hard to make Greece decent for living after backwardness and poverty they lived before 1970. They are bribing state workers especially those who work around taxes so they avoid suing them. Better to bribe 500€ one man than to pay 3000€ every year and have only 67,000€ profit when you can have sweet round 70,000€ which you can spend on Mercedes or BMW last edition.
If they changed taxes and now theyre high that would be because they DIDNT pay till now and state need money to continue funding everything. They got what they deserve, now they have to work more, pay more taxes and live with less money until situation gets better. But i doubt it will get better as Germany(of course germans have to be involved, war or peace, germans have to poke) already gave 300,000,000€ fundings to Greek state and ordered them to implement harsh austerity which of course greeks wont follow and will rebel, fascism will raise to the surface, albanians will claim Epirus, macedonians will claim Thessaloniki, Germany will buy greek islands for cheap and make hotels to earn money and send german tourists there instead paying greeks anymore, turks will claim Trakia and thats how you got Greece, once the leader of the civilized world now in mud, vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations.
YOU KNOW SHIT ABOUT GREECE, JUST STOP OPENING YOUR DIRTY MOUTH CAUSE YOU POURING SHIT ALL OVER US AGAIN.
Its been 5+ threads already and you keep talking shit and lies about Greece, with information taken out of your 50 year old disease filled ass, you know nothing about what you are talking about, we have established that, in every thread i confronted you and you failed to backup your "information" (many of your "views" about Greece are IDENTICAL with the "white supremacists" bullshit propaganda, you reading too much golden dawn website and i wonder why, could it be you are a facist?) and the only thing we are left are your racist hate about Greece and Albania.Older generation Greeks and Albanians were tough people, so maybe they slapped you around when you were younger and you are still bitter, i dont know.The funniest part of all, is you are even afraid to say where you actually are from.Your hideous propaganda and your retarded "i live in a cave with bears" science fiction "steven spielberg" speculations are highly unwelcomed.Talk with facts and respect or shut the fuck up already.
Wrong, taxes are average in Greece. Greeks just got too greedy and spoiled because their parents worked hard to make Greece decent for living after backwardness and poverty they lived before 1970. They are bribing state workers especially those who work around taxes so they avoid suing them. Better to bribe 500€ one man than to pay 3000€ every year and have only 67,000€ profit when you can have sweet round 70,000€ which you can spend on Mercedes or BMW last edition.
If they changed taxes and now theyre high that would be because they DIDNT pay till now and state need money to continue funding everything. They got what they deserve, now they have to work more, pay more taxes and live with less money until situation gets better. But i doubt it will get better as Germany(of course germans have to be involved, war or peace, germans have to poke) already gave 300,000,000€ fundings to Greek state and ordered them to implement harsh austerity which of course greeks wont follow and will rebel, fascism will raise to the surface, albanians will claim Epirus, macedonians will claim Thessaloniki, Germany will buy greek islands for cheap and make hotels to earn money and send german tourists there instead paying greeks anymore, turks will claim Trakia and thats how you got Greece, once the leader of the civilized world now in mud, vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations.
YOU KNOW SHIT ABOUT GREECE, JUST STOP OPENING YOUR DIRTY MOUTH CAUSE YOU POURING SHIT ALL OVER US AGAIN.
Its been 5+ threads already and you keep talking shit and lies about Greece, with information taken out of your 50 year old disease filled ass, you know nothing about what you are talking about, we have established that, in every thread i confronted you and you failed to backup your "information" (many of your "views" about Greece are IDENTICAL with the "white supremacists" bullshit propaganda, you reading too much golden dawn website and i wonder why, could it be you are a facist?) and the only thing we are left are your racist hate about Greece and Albania.Older generation Greeks and Albanians were tough people, so maybe they slapped you around when you were younger and you are still bitter, i dont know.The funniest part of all, is you are even afraid to say where you actually are from.Your hideous propaganda and your retarded "i live in a cave with bears" science fiction "steven spielberg" speculations are highly unwelcomed.Talk with facts and respect or shut the fuck up already.
trolled
Lade...
Lade...
baby_bullet86 Konto gelöscht
08.05.2014 - 12:21
baby_bullet86 Konto gelöscht
Guys, please learn how to quote properly instead of forming these massive quote walls,jesus.
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
That's because Socialism is first and foremost designed to serve the people and seeks to make their lifes better. Capitalism only serves the rich, while still making the lifes of at least the middle class more enjoyable.
You mention Greece, Italy and cite socialism as their doom. At the same time you forbid mentioning Sweden and Norway because they aren't socialist. Can you explain to me how these two countries are less socialist than Greece and Italy?
Also, I got news for you about Germany: we have a mixture of capitalist and socialist economy. It's called social market economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
Just as Norway and Sweden we are much, much more socialist than Greece and Italy have ever been. By your logic the north of Europe should look like the south economy-wise.
The problem about Socialism has always been it's implemention. So far it had mostly been tried by the wrong people for the wrong reason. It has been sold to the poor by mobsters to gain power over them, just like religion before that. If you take the other approach to it, a proper democratic one, it is just as valid as capitalism and can work just as fine. Maybe a socialist society won't be as ultra progressive and productive as a capitalist one, but personally I'd take it any day over the mess we're currently living in.
"so maybe they slapped you around when you were younger and you are still bitter"
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Wrong, taxes are average in Greece. Greeks just got too greedy and spoiled because their parents worked hard to make Greece decent for living after backwardness and poverty they lived before 1970. They are bribing state workers especially those who work around taxes so they avoid suing them. Better to bribe 500€ one man than to pay 3000€ every year and have only 67,000€ profit when you can have sweet round 70,000€ which you can spend on Mercedes or BMW last edition.
If they changed taxes and now theyre high that would be because they DIDNT pay till now and state need money to continue funding everything. They got what they deserve, now they have to work more, pay more taxes and live with less money until situation gets better. But i doubt it will get better as Germany(of course germans have to be involved, war or peace, germans have to poke) already gave 300,000,000€ fundings to Greek state and ordered them to implement harsh austerity which of course greeks wont follow and will rebel, fascism will raise to the surface, albanians will claim Epirus, macedonians will claim Thessaloniki, Germany will buy greek islands for cheap and make hotels to earn money and send german tourists there instead paying greeks anymore, turks will claim Trakia and thats how you got Greece, once the leader of the civilized world now in mud, vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations.
YOU KNOW SHIT ABOUT GREECE, JUST STOP OPENING YOUR DIRTY MOUTH CAUSE YOU POURING SHIT ALL OVER US AGAIN.
Its been 5+ threads already and you keep talking shit and lies about Greece, with information taken out of your 50 year old disease filled ass, you know nothing about what you are talking about, we have established that, in every thread i confronted you and you failed to backup your "information" (many of your "views" about Greece are IDENTICAL with the "white supremacists" bullshit propaganda, you reading too much golden dawn website and i wonder why, could it be you are a facist?) and the only thing we are left are your racist hate about Greece and Albania.Older generation Greeks and Albanians were tough people, so maybe they slapped you around when you were younger and you are still bitter, i dont know.The funniest part of all, is you are even afraid to say where you actually are from.Your hideous propaganda and your retarded "i live in a cave with bears" science fiction "steven spielberg" speculations are highly unwelcomed.Talk with facts and respect or shut the fuck up already.
So, is it the case that the taxes in Greece are not average, compared to the rest of the EU? (EU average about 38%, Greece about 42%)
Isn't corruption a problem in Greece? it has the same corruption perception index as China and is widely recognized as possessing the most corrupt public sector of any 'full member' EU nation.
Wasn't Greece once the leader of the civilized world?
And doesn't it consider itself vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations? If not, why go the Golden Dawn route?
Finally, aren't the bailouts mainly funded by Germany, through the IMF, ECB and EU?
Greece won't get anywhere unless it accepts its problems are problems, and then accepts its problems are its responsibility.
If it does not, expect the greatest problem-displacement ideology: Fascism.
And then expect at least another decade of problems.
Capitalist countries having some universal programs doesn't mean they are close to socialist. Unless you are laissez faire, you generally support certain social programs that you feel the government is responsible for.
Many people doesnt know what they want, especially on the west. Like England, they had crisis after crisis and when Thatcher arrived and started privatizing state owned companies people revolted and started to trashtalk her. Did they know what they want? capitalism or communism? pick one. She privatized companies, used that money to repair infrastructure, pay welfare to certain folks who really needed and thus prolonged prosperity of english nation. Without her UK would still jump from one crisis to another because thats true face of capitalism.
She privatized what the government wasn't responsible for and spent more money on what government is responsible for. I don't see what point you are making here.
The economy recovered after Chavez came to power--poorly. Inflation was massively high, companies avoided Venezuela due to the government stealing property, and the only thing that kept their economy going was oil.
Of course poorly when USA and EU drained every resource of Venezuela and made profit of it for 200 years. Latest grab was venezuelan oil but thank god Chavez had balls and stood up for his country. After long period of colonization it need time to pass to reform and recover economy.
The only thing that keep saudi arabia, kuwait, qatar, uae economies going is oil. So saying that about Venezuela ONLY, is stupid.
Compare before thinking, calculate before posting.
Except standing up did nothing. Inflation was disastrous and the poor did not get helped at all. I'm not arguing about UAE and the Gulf nations, I'm not saying they are any better.
In North Korea, people are starving. They rely on foreign aid and they have a low life expectancy, some reports show they resort to cannibalism there. Meanwhile, South Koreans experience one of the highest life expectancies in the world.
NK is mountainous country, not much straight fields for agriculture and cattle. SK got all the fertile land. If they have famine thats their own failure on mismanagement, doesnt have to be socialism's fault. Always take the news from the west about the east with reserve, there is too much propaganda in it.
Famine was their own failure due to socialist economics. Central planning doesn't work.
There is a reason people didn't want to pay taxes in Greece, they are too high.
Wrong, taxes are average in Greece. Greeks just got too greedy and spoiled because their parents worked hard to make Greece decent for living after backwardness and poverty they lived before 1970. They are bribing state workers especially those who work around taxes so they avoid suing them. Better to bribe 500€ one man than to pay 3000€ every year and have only 67,000€ profit when you can have sweet round 70,000€ which you can spend on Mercedes or BMW last edition.
If they changed taxes and now theyre high that would be because they DIDNT pay till now and state need money to continue funding everything. They got what they deserve, now they have to work more, pay more taxes and live with less money until situation gets better. But i doubt it will get better as Germany(of course germans have to be involved, war or peace, germans have to poke) already gave 300,000,000€ fundings to Greek state and ordered them to implement harsh austerity which of course greeks wont follow and will rebel, fascism will raise to the surface, albanians will claim Epirus, macedonians will claim Thessaloniki, Germany will buy greek islands for cheap and make hotels to earn money and send german tourists there instead paying greeks anymore, turks will claim Trakia and thats how you got Greece, once the leader of the civilized world now in mud, vulnerable and surrounded by hostile nations.
I would try to avoid taxes if they were 45% too.
When the average American includes *all* of the 'takings' (federal, state and local income taxes, duties, excises, governmental fees, social security/medicaid, sales taxes, fuel taxes, and property taxes), it comes to about 60% of income - including anticipated average health care costs.
The average Canadian pays about 45% of income in taxes (including the less visible ones like sales taxes, import duties etc).
The average EU citizen pays about 60% as well (about 40% of income taxes and about 20% in sales taxes).
For their taxes, Americans get cheaper housing (larger homes per dollar spent) due to the mortgage interest deduction, and a superlatively kick ass war machine.
Canadians receive much cheaper health care and cheaper higher education.
EU citizens receive much cheaper health care and cheaper higher education.
Sources:
American and Canadian tax rates (including the sales taxes and fees) are easily googled.
I had trouble locating the EU tax rates, so I used the average EU income tax (38%) + VAT (21%)
Socialism has proven to fail at every point in history. It sounds nice on the outside, but doesn't work, and can't work.
Venezuela is now using rationing thanks to their socialist policies.
The Soviet Union collapsed
The standard of living in North Korea is terrible compared to South Korea
East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany
China has converted to an iron fist capitalist economy after the failure of socialism
Over 100 million have been killed by socialism (May have been called communism, but it was closer to socialism)
The more liberal states in the US, like California, are failing. More conservative states, like Texas, are booming
Socialist-like policies have left Greece, Italy, and other countries bankrupt
Socialism has failed on every level in every place it has been tried yet socialists still want to support it. Why?
And don't point to fucking Norway and the rest of Scandinavia because they aren't socialist.
A wise man once said, "Karl Marx greatest achievement was to invent a ideology plagued with events that left mass graves frequently in order to feed the ignorance of the masses" ~Tunder3
I can see you haven't lived in a socialist country, so why judge it?
