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Not complete guide
Here goes another question. Suppose I have one stack of troops and my enemy have another stack of troops.
I move my stack of troop as first move and my enemy tries to TurnBlock it and fail.
but after I moved my stack, I split it into two and send them somewhere else.
What would happen? Would my enemy follow my stack and attack it? After or before I split it?
Thanks in advance
As i have stated multiple times, i'm not updating it until html is more ironed out. Probably in the new year.
A tb will only follow units to a new location if the stack is still in range of the tb unit. You'll notice this mainly with bombers. this is only for stacks/units in the open. If a stack is in a city it will never get followed to a new location.
To answer your question, the stack will either get tbd at the original location or, if in range of the tb unit, before you split it with a part of the stack getting tb'd. The most common scenario youll see this in is with trans.
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Excellent news, can't wait to have an updated guide to fully understand this critical concept. That will reduce the frustration quite a bit (at least, for people with a short fuse like me) and improve the strategic potential of the game! Thanks!
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I have yet to see "turn blocking" used successfully in a game with many moves.
Every time someone has tried to TB me, all they did was lose needed units.
When someone was successful with a TB, it didn't change anything. It just meant
that when the stack finally attacked their defenses the attacker had
even more units to throw at the TB player and the TB player
had bled his units to a lower level.
Almost all games give a player plenty of time to beat the opponent. NOw if the
game has only a few moves left, yeah TB could possibly help. possibly.
However, assuming a regular 50 turn -100 turn game.
I recall using TB against a higher level player (ILU) and ILU referred to it as:
"wasting ur units by
noobing them at a stack U can't possibly win the battle in."
Compare this to reality; lets say player blue has a stack of 25 units. Red thinks that blue
will attack him. Red decides to TB by sending a kamikaze attack of 10 militia units.
Red's TB is successful
except Red now has lost 10 critical units needed for defense and blue will wall and hit
red again, and now blue will almost always have an even bigger unit advantage over
red.
WTF good was it for Red to waste 10 units in a TB?
The times players have succeeded in TB'ing me have never changed the outcome.
The kamikaze TB'er has always lost. Every single time.
On the other hand, when I've turnblocked my opponent, it has never changed the outcome.
I lost.
there's got to be something to this tactic that i'm missing.
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/s/ Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss
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I have yet to see "turn blocking" used successfully in a game with many moves.
Every time someone has tried to TB me, all they did was lose needed units.
When someone was successful with a TB, it didn't change anything. It just meant
that when the stack finally attacked their defenses the attacker had
even more units to throw at the TB player and the TB player
had bled his units to a lower level.
Almost all games give a player plenty of time to beat the opponent. NOw if the
game has only a few moves left, yeah TB could possibly help. possibly.
However, assuming a regular 50 turn -100 turn game.
I recall using TB against a higher level player (ILU) and ILU referred to it as:
"wasting ur units by
noobing them at a stack U can't possibly win the battle in."
Compare this to reality; lets say player blue has a stack of 25 units. Red thinks that blue
will attack him. Red decides to TB by sending a kamikaze attack of 10 militia units.
Red's TB is successful
except Red now has lost 10 critical units needed for defense and blue will wall and hit
red again, and now blue will almost always have an even bigger unit advantage over
red.
WTF good was it for Red to waste 10 units in a TB?
The times players have succeeded in TB'ing me have never changed the outcome.
The kamikaze TB'er has always lost. Every single time.
On the other hand, when I've turnblocked my opponent, it has never changed the outcome.
I lost.
there's got to be something to this tactic that i'm missing.
i would explain to you but i am an evil, degenerate atheist with no moral compass, so i will just summon Laochra and leave you with this.
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Geschrieben von Khal.eesi, 20.12.2015 at 03:48
i would explain to you but i am an evil, degenerate atheist with no moral compass, so i will just summon Laochra and leave you with this.
I was gonna explain to him... until I saw this... did he actually call you that?
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Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you.
We're all people.
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How does the mechanics in which your units ends outside of your city happens?
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The turnblocking works like this:
Chance to turnblock = to the difference between you and your enemies troop counts
Chance % = your units count / opponent units count
Example:
You have 3 Militias and your enemy has 10.
3/10 = 30 % Chance
This will work up to a max of 50%. So even if you match or send more troops than your enemy, there is a 50% chance he will avoid.
I have recently talked to some players who tell me that TB chance can go well above 50%. My only reference to TB mechanics is this guide, as I am still learning the mechanic of this game I just thought I want ask if it has been confirmed that TB chances can go above 50%? And if this should be updated at all to reflect that.
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I have recently talked to some players who tell me that TB chance can go well above 50%.
Read the next paragraph:
Zitat:
That is unless your priority is higher than them, because then the chance to turnblock doubles so with the same situation, yet you moving before the enemy does.
In the Example
(3/10)*2 = 60%
This will work upto a max of 99%.
In the case of turnblocking up to 4 units on an equal priority move, a 1 unit tb will have a 50% chance of turnblocking, as opposed to the 25% you might expect. This is ONLY in the case of tb attempts on up to 4 units.
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Thanks Clovis, sorry I should have been more clear. I was told that even for my first move, meaning turn priority should make at best a 50% chance of me being TB, I could be TB at higher than 50%. And this seemed to be true as my first move was TB 5 or 6 turns in a row I think.
It was critical doing it to me btw in a duel.
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Total annihilation doomstack. Fe) 20 tank should always have 100%. TB chance against 5 infantry. As first move. It exist.
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Thanks Clovis, sorry I should have been more clear. I was told that even for my first move, meaning turn priority should make at best a 50% chance of me being TB, I could be TB at higher than 50%. And this seemed to be true as my first move was TB 5 or 6 turns in a row I think.
It was critical doing it to me btw in a duel.
on equal priority moves the tb % will never be higher than 50%, critical was just lucky. Idk what hes talking about
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I have a few questions, sorry if they seem silly.
1. Is there any way to insure a 50% TB chance 100% of the time?
2. If I cancel a move, (you said "canceled moves don't count"), does that mean that I can make another move as my first move after canceling a move that was previously my first move? Or does it not work that way?
3. Can Player A TB Player B's reinforcement of a city? What I might be trying to say is: If Player A attacks a city first move, and Player B reinforces that same city, would Player A then keep Player B from making units in that city? Or would Player B's units in the city be possibly TBed from going anywhere and thus forced to defend the city?
4. Sometimes, I tried to TB a stack of my opponents men. I have seen my TB units fail the TB but follow my opponents men to their destination. Is this a bug? I have not been able to recreate this at all, but it has happened a few times. If this isn't a bug, how would I recreate this? (I hope this question is somewhat TB related, if not I will move it.)
That's all for now, and thanks for the thread, it helped me quite a bit in understanding TB's. While I don't understand them completely yet, I'm starting to get the hang of it.
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Geschrieben von Zenith, 10.03.2016 at 17:45
I have a few questions, sorry if they seem silly.
1. Is there any way to insure a 50% TB chance 100% of the time?
Answer: Send 1/2 of his stack count.
i.e. If he has 10 tanks, send a minimum of 5 units, anything more is just bonus attack.
Ratio of 2:1, for every 2 troops of his send 1 of your own to ensure 50% TB chance.
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4 is intentional, if units have range to follow and dont tb they will. This can be used to reinforce a city you own walled by the enemy if the enemy attacks with thier walls
Also for tbs in general i would not view this as an exact science. I have had some wierd cases where i move a whole stack first move and then divide it in later moves with some not going through
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Hi,
It is mentioned that units in a naval transport count in the TB chances, but units in an air transport don't. What about ground transport, for maps allowing it? Anyone knows?
Thanks
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Soldier001 Konto gelöscht |
Hi,
It is mentioned that units in a naval transport count in the TB chances, but units in an air transport don't. What about ground transport, for maps allowing it? Anyone knows?
Thanks
units in any transport count in the tb chances.
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Geschrieben von Guest, 08.09.2016 at 23:37
Hi,
It is mentioned that units in a naval transport count in the TB chances, but units in an air transport don't. What about ground transport, for maps allowing it? Anyone knows?
Thanks
units in any transport count in the tb chances.
you tested it? Definitively doesn't for air transports....
Also just realized that the guide has lots of inaccuracy. The formula for TBs is wrong, the stack merging theory is incomplete and several TB tricks (mostly based in the stack merge theory) are either wrong or counterproductive.
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Soldier001 Konto gelöscht |
Geschrieben von Guest, 08.09.2016 at 23:37
Hi,
It is mentioned that units in a naval transport count in the TB chances, but units in an air transport don't. What about ground transport, for maps allowing it? Anyone knows?
Thanks
units in any transport count in the tb chances.
you tested it? Definitively doesn't for air transports....
Also just realized that the guide has lots of inaccuracy. The formula for TBs is wrong, the stack merging theory is incomplete and several TB tricks (mostly based in the stack merge theory) are either wrong or counterproductive.
well i have tested it like a year ago and i have got myself tb 64 stack with at+3inf pretty sure would be impossibleif it only counted at as tb units, but they might've changed it i am not sure since HTML5 version i didn't test shit
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1st
2st
3st
Pro guide
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"You're aren't " - epic backflip
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Someone should update this. Urgently
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Is there yet any actual basis and understanding of the code behind turnblocking?
An accurate guide would be very useful. As far as I can understand number of your units vs theres into a direct percentage of chance to turnblock is not accurate. Ive seen many moves where a stack of 1 can tb a stack of 200 which seems an impossible chance yet happens often.
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Geschrieben von lsilorien, 23.04.2020 at 09:45
Is there yet any actual basis and understanding of the code behind turnblocking?
An accurate guide would be very useful. As far as I can understand number of your units vs theres into a direct percentage of chance to turnblock is not accurate. Ive seen many moves where a stack of 1 can tb a stack of 200 which seems an impossible chance yet happens often.
You gotta remember that not only the amount of units count, but also the movement priority given to those units.
We'd need an admin to unveil the holy secrets of turnblocking to fully understand I guess
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Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you.
We're all people.
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Also just realized that the guide has lots of inaccuracy. The formula for TBs is wrong, the stack merging theory is incomplete and several TB tricks (mostly based in the stack merge theory) are either wrong or counterproductive.
Can you elaborate on this? I'll update this guide. I know what you mean regarding the counterproductive tricks. There are things i deliberately omitted in order to keep people from learning my gameplay and punishing me for it. I'll add everything now.
I'll also link to your thread on un-tbable transports. I consider this a bug but while it exists people should know about it and use it if they wish until it's fixed. Many people will use it without realising.
https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=16986
Edit:
Ok so I have added a new section called "Using the TB system defensively and Walling". It's things like this imo that separate the good players from the great players. I've also included a link to Wd's guide on intercepts which I had only briefly mentioned.
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for the new sections.
Regarding the TB formula, this thread might be the most useful: https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=28465. The key is Ivan's explanation about how the movement priorities work.
Regarding interception and the stack theory - I actually made a research month before WD. Please take a look as it includes some missing pieces: https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=29233. There're some tricks that I have in mind mostly involving merging units outside cities like, how to attack if you're not TBED, but stop your attack (including gen from going solo) if any of your stacks get tbed. Those are great ways to work around the probabilities.
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Regarding the TB formula, this thread might be the most useful: https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=28465. The key is Ivan's explanation about how the movement priorities work.
That post by Ivan is so confusing. He seems to be explaining how the game sorts through the moves of multiple players. But that doesnt have anything to do with their individual % chance of success on a move. Your tests with WD are interesting though. Those contradict what both Amok and tophats have said in the past.
Is it not possible to simply view the code and figure out how the system is supposed to work from that? Or is it too complex...
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What does priority refer too
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What counts as a move?
- Moving troops from A to B(obviously)
- Zigzagging a troop stack counts as one move. For example this is one move.
- Unloading troops from a transport naval or air counts as a move.
According to discussion with Dave here (=> https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=48072), manually buying reinforcements in a city counts as a move as well. Since this thread serves as an official guide, it would be neat to mention it here...
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I still refer to Dave's essay first..
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Geschrieben von brianwl, 13.10.2021 at 17:55
I still refer to Dave's essay first..
I'd be interested in reading this essay. Would you mind sharing the link please?
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