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Verfasst von Permamuted, 30.03.2017 - 10:14

It is time to make this happen. Myself chess and desu orginally conceived the ds boost to give ds light defensive capabilities. The militia boost was an alternative to the previously existing 6 defence infantry which the admins nerfed without discussion. This boost was only ever meant to be a temporary beta. Then along came ivan with a new unforseen marine capacity upgrade adding further to ds' already unmatched expansion capabilities. We have tried it now and it is obviously too strong. It would be unfair of me to leave it in place just because i no longer duel and it doesn't affect me. I can see it needs to happen, the duelists see it needs to happen.

I think we should remove the militia defence boost. This will leave ds still a powerful competitive strat without destroying it completely. It was already an ok strat before any of the changes but the militia range and extra marine capacity should be enough to achieve what was originally intended. If anyone has any other suggestions i am all ears. I saw witch doctors suggestion of 7 attack ds helis. This too could work however it would probably require further amendment. I dont want to see ds rendered useless.

This will be my last alteration to the strategies, any further developements will have to come from future generations or our admins if they ever return to work on this game. This last change will leave the strats in the best shape theyve ever been in with all bar ra and hw having a competitive niche.

I am going to leave this thread up for a while before going to ivan. If anyone has any further insights/ideas/solutions please post them below. I am only interested in constructive and logical posts. Anything else will be ignored.

Allow me to take the liberty of pre-emptively striking off the usual trash that fills up these threads. No this is not just about ds ukraine. No this is not just about europe+. No scenarios and rp have no influence on strat balance. No ds is not being nerfed so laochra can enjoy pd supremacy. No we do not need to just learn how to counter a different playstyle. No clovis that laochra was proved wrong a year ago does not have anything to do with ds' current overpowered state. No waffel, just no.

I think that deals with most of it. Looking forward to the responses.

4nic Illyria Beiträge: 5358 von: Italien	21.05.2017 - 14:54 4nic Geschrieben von Sultan of Swing, 21.05.2017 at 14:51 Geschrieben von 4nic, 21.05.2017 at 14:43 Geschrieben von Sultan of Swing, 21.05.2017 at 14:07 Geschrieben von 4nic, 21.05.2017 at 06:19 Geschrieben von Sultan of Swing, 20.05.2017 at 22:34 Geschrieben von Permamuted, 30.03.2017 at 10:14 I dont want to see ds rendered useless. well I for one do D All joking aside however, I think the new nerf has worked well thus far, but I do think that the helis are still quite OP. Let's not forget how crazy we all thought it was back when they gave helis that +1 defense (5 defense as it is now). That was enough to make DS a viable strategy. Then it got another attacking boost, and then the militia defense and range.. Did it make it useable as Germany, Turkey, and UK? Yes, and I have had loads of fun with it. But let's be real.. DS is op, and I would like it to go back to the way that it was back when it was just the 5 defense boost to helis, and militia had no range boost. People still used it, and it was viable as ukr, but it was a fair and even match that required skill to still win, and not just autistically moving around stacks from one place to another (to quote learster for all who remember). I guess what I'm saying is that the nerf is a positive step in the right direction, but going with WD's idea, or giving militia their normal move range I think would be the final touch to bring DS back to "normalcy" and #MakeAWGreatAgain That would completely ruin the strategy.... Do you not think -2 defence to milita isnt dramatic? I have tested it and with the -2 i really cant utilize milita for defending anymore,the only thing you can do is use them for cheap expansion where their pd range gives them more options for taking neutrals and walling,i bet most people will argue about ds still being op after this nerf due to losing to it..its not the strat its the player. ur arguments are slightly biased mr.ionlyusedsnomatterwhat im not saying its op still due to me losing to it, quite frankly DS was beatable even when it was pre-nerf. All im saying is taking away just 1 attack from DS helis would probably bring the strategy back to normalcy. I mean lets be real.. i was GC and had a stack of 6inf and gen that lose to 3 helis... come one now, tell me that should be ok lol that's what helis are supposed to do,kill infantry its the whole idea of it they were killing them fine previously... there was no need for that +1 lol on another note.. did u even play aw before the famous ds boost? i dont think u have much credibility on this xd no but from what ive heard it had similar stats to sm? what I mean is you shouldn't judge DS by its ability to kill infantry,this -2 nerf ruined it in defence,ds haters want even more nerfs now as what they wanted was ds to have less attack ---- ''Everywhere where i am absent, they commit nothing but follies'' ~Napoleon Lade... Lade...
Sultan of Swing Stalins Martians Beiträge: 2948 von: USA	21.05.2017 - 17:39 Sultan of Swing Geschrieben von 4nic, 21.05.2017 at 14:54 Geschrieben von Sultan of Swing, 21.05.2017 at 14:51 Geschrieben von 4nic, 21.05.2017 at 14:43 Geschrieben von Sultan of Swing, 21.05.2017 at 14:07 Geschrieben von 4nic, 21.05.2017 at 06:19 Geschrieben von Sultan of Swing, 20.05.2017 at 22:34 Geschrieben von Permamuted, 30.03.2017 at 10:14 I dont want to see ds rendered useless. well I for one do D All joking aside however, I think the new nerf has worked well thus far, but I do think that the helis are still quite OP. Let's not forget how crazy we all thought it was back when they gave helis that +1 defense (5 defense as it is now). That was enough to make DS a viable strategy. Then it got another attacking boost, and then the militia defense and range.. Did it make it useable as Germany, Turkey, and UK? Yes, and I have had loads of fun with it. But let's be real.. DS is op, and I would like it to go back to the way that it was back when it was just the 5 defense boost to helis, and militia had no range boost. People still used it, and it was viable as ukr, but it was a fair and even match that required skill to still win, and not just autistically moving around stacks from one place to another (to quote learster for all who remember). I guess what I'm saying is that the nerf is a positive step in the right direction, but going with WD's idea, or giving militia their normal move range I think would be the final touch to bring DS back to "normalcy" and #MakeAWGreatAgain That would completely ruin the strategy.... Do you not think -2 defence to milita isnt dramatic? I have tested it and with the -2 i really cant utilize milita for defending anymore,the only thing you can do is use them for cheap expansion where their pd range gives them more options for taking neutrals and walling,i bet most people will argue about ds still being op after this nerf due to losing to it..its not the strat its the player. ur arguments are slightly biased mr.ionlyusedsnomatterwhat im not saying its op still due to me losing to it, quite frankly DS was beatable even when it was pre-nerf. All im saying is taking away just 1 attack from DS helis would probably bring the strategy back to normalcy. I mean lets be real.. i was GC and had a stack of 6inf and gen that lose to 3 helis... come one now, tell me that should be ok lol that's what helis are supposed to do,kill infantry its the whole idea of it they were killing them fine previously... there was no need for that +1 lol on another note.. did u even play aw before the famous ds boost? i dont think u have much credibility on this xd no but from what ive heard it had similar stats to sm? what I mean is you shouldn't judge DS by its ability to kill infantry,this -2 nerf ruined it in defence,ds haters want even more nerfs now as what they wanted was ds to have less attack ur not listening to what i said initially!!!! all im saying is bring DS back to what it was, when it was viable, yet not OP. I hear what your saying, but my argument is not based on how i still think it's op now. Though I do think that, its not the reasoning behind my point. My only point is to bring it back a little more to the earlier days. Are helis OP at killing infantry, yes; but I agree that they should do this. I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm also not saying to remove the bonus against infantry. I understand that this is the point of the strategy. I'm just saying remove the overall +1 attack, so that the helicopters specialty is attacking infantry, and not absolutely TKOing anything in it's path. However, as it seems there is quite some strong backlash founded on weak claims... a more notable change should be to simply take away that 5 defense from the helis, and bring them back to normal 4. Helicopters job is not to defend, and giving them the same defense stats as militia and DS infantry, is well plain silly (in my opinion at least). In this case, helis would still excel at KOing everything in attack, yet would be vulnerable to being TBd or rushed. Seems like a fair trade off. Similar to the older blitz (#bringbackblitz2014), yea you have that OP range, but you trade off -1 defense. Seems fair, and this is probably the most logical final change that could be made. Plus lets be real.. lets take a quick history trip to the RA issue from 2 years ago? (Don't remember timing exactly sorry ) Tanks were 90 cost for 9 attack... like wut. (There were also multiple threads about tanks being able to defend too with their 5 defense: note the similarity here ) OBVIOUSLY this needed to change, but ofc there were always those 1-2 people who be like "omg dont nerf the strat, its the only reason im oP!" DS had, before the recent nerf, reached that level. First it was the attack bonus, then the defense and militia range, and then the heli capacity! only one of these can stay. We have nerfed militia defense, but 1 more change needs to be made for it to become a well rounded strategy. ---- Lade... Lade...

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