Nerf DS

5 HELIS KILL 8 INF
TRY TO DO THAT WITH SM 5 BOMBERS
OR 5 ANYTHING.
EITHER MAKE HELIS 200
OR LOWER THEIR ATTACK

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

On point as always.

Thats their job...to kill infs if u havent noticed they gain +2att vs infs and +1 att vs milita they also have the worst defence so rushing helis with tanks and bombers is ur best option (helis have same defence as milita)

Any noob can win with ds ukr

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

Are you kidding me?
ds heli has 11 range while if tank has 5 range also no range to if millia

Geschrieben von Cold Case, 15.01.2017 at 13:33

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

On point as always.

Geschrieben von Guest, 16.01.2017 at 01:23

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

Are you kidding me?
ds heli has 11 range while if tank has 5 range also no range to if millia

Are you kidding me?
IF Tanks can take cities while DS heli cannot also IF infantry is OP at defending

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 16.01.2017 at 06:10

Geschrieben von Guest, 16.01.2017 at 01:23

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

Are you kidding me?
ds heli has 11 range while if tank has 5 range also no range to if millia

Are you kidding me?
IF Tanks can take cities while DS heli cannot also IF infantry is OP at defending

send 1 land unit with those ds helis and they can take citys

Geschrieben von AlBoZzZ, 16.01.2017 at 06:53

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 16.01.2017 at 06:10

Geschrieben von Guest, 16.01.2017 at 01:23

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

Are you kidding me?
ds heli has 11 range while if tank has 5 range also no range to if millia

Are you kidding me?
IF Tanks can take cities while DS heli cannot also IF infantry is OP at defending

send 1 land unit with those ds helis and they can take citys

send 1 transport with those IF tanks and they are faster than the helis

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 16.01.2017 at 06:57

Geschrieben von AlBoZzZ, 16.01.2017 at 06:53

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 16.01.2017 at 06:10

Geschrieben von Guest, 16.01.2017 at 01:23

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

Are you kidding me?
ds heli has 11 range while if tank has 5 range also no range to if millia

Are you kidding me?
IF Tanks can take cities while DS heli cannot also IF infantry is OP at defending

send 1 land unit with those ds helis and they can take citys

send 1 transport with those IF tanks and they are faster than the helis

that doesnt always apply. you cant play IF east cuz it sucks and its expensive, and west you need range for uk IF to rush ger or for ger IF to rush london

Geschrieben von AlBoZzZ, 16.01.2017 at 07:02

that doesnt always apply. you cant play IF east cuz it sucks and its expensive, and west you need range for uk IF to rush ger or for ger IF to rush london

Oh man, why you gotta ruin the fun?

You can <<play>> any strategy anywhere you want. How <<good>> or <<viable>> that strategy is for that particular country is something subjective and the people will tell you different opinions about it.

Out of controversy, and for the top 5 picks in Europe+, people commonly agrees for IF to be playable in both UK and Germany, while DS is playable for Ukraine. Everything else is still too controversial to be pointed out and the people differ a lot in theses particular country-strategy combination (IF/DS Spain, IF/DS France, IF Ukraine).

So yeah your argument is pretty crap... sorry not mirroring it.

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 11:43

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Which is exactly why DS strategy exists - to balance the game. In BlackSwan's example, the cost of the DS heli's is still more than the inf.

Geschrieben von brianwl, 16.01.2017 at 13:02

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 11:43

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Which is exactly why DS strategy exists - to balance the game. In BlackSwan's example, the cost of the DS heli's is still more than the inf.

but way less reinf needed to take it than say IF, making it maybe not the most cost effective strategy, but often overlooked: the most reinf efficient strategy

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 13:53

Geschrieben von brianwl, 16.01.2017 at 13:02

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 11:43

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Which is exactly why DS strategy exists - to balance the game. In BlackSwan's example, the cost of the DS heli's is still more than the inf.

but way less reinf needed to take it than say IF, making it maybe not the most cost effective strategy, but often overlooked: the most reinf efficient strategy

cost effective matters a lot more in this game when you've stacking effect and general bonuses

Don't judge how ds is OP by its ability to kill infantry..

Geschrieben von 4nic, 16.01.2017 at 14:25

Don't judge how ds is OP by its ability to kill infantry..

why not

Buff swans.. he really needs it

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 13:53

Geschrieben von brianwl, 16.01.2017 at 13:02

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 11:43

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Which is exactly why DS strategy exists - to balance the game. In BlackSwan's example, the cost of the DS heli's is still more than the inf.

but way less reinf needed to take it than say IF, making it maybe not the most cost effective strategy, but often overlooked: the most reinf efficient strategy

Yea, but a player that is spamming infantry should be able to adapt by throwing in some AA or even better bombers which cost less than Helicopters and are cost effective at taking them out (exception being tanks, which are better but can't chase helicopters easily). On the other hand, a SM player will beat a DS player assuming same skill and income/reinforcements, does that also make SM overpowered because 5 bombers can take out 8 helicopter (seems quite cost effective to me).

Also, note all the players claiming it to be OP but will rarely use DS....

Geschrieben von Darkmace, 16.01.2017 at 15:05

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 13:53

Geschrieben von brianwl, 16.01.2017 at 13:02

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 11:43

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Which is exactly why DS strategy exists - to balance the game. In BlackSwan's example, the cost of the DS heli's is still more than the inf.

but way less reinf needed to take it than say IF, making it maybe not the most cost effective strategy, but often overlooked: the most reinf efficient strategy

Yea, but a player that is spamming infantry should be able to adapt by throwing in some AA or even better bombers which cost less than Helicopters and are cost effective at taking them out (exception being tanks, which are better but can't chase helicopters easily). On the other hand, a SM player will beat a DS player assuming same skill and income/reinforcements, does that also make SM overpowered because 5 bombers can take out 8 helicopter (seems quite cost effective to me).

Also, note all the players claiming it to be OP but will rarely use DS....

them main fact is ds is ruining competitive 1v1 right now........ the eu+ map is broken and whoever picks ukraine will win. Its not even just ds thats too strong! right now ukraine players get to choose their favorite flavor of ice cream it feels like... " u want strawberry ( desert storm ), or vanilla ( guerrilla warfare ) ? its stupid and it is taking the fun away from these maps right now.

Zitat:

Them main fact is ds is ruining competitive 1v1 right now........ the eu+ map is broken and whoever picks ukraine will win. Its not even just ds thats too strong! right now ukraine players get to choose their favorite flavor of ice cream it feels like... " u want strawberry ( desert storm ), or vanilla ( guerrilla warfare ) ? its stupid and it is taking the fun away from these maps right now.

stop cry

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 15:17

Geschrieben von Darkmace, 16.01.2017 at 15:05

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 13:53

Geschrieben von brianwl, 16.01.2017 at 13:02

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 11:43

I get what you are saying clovis, but the fact is that infantry is one of the most cost effective and useful units in the game for many strategies, for a strategy to specifically wreck those units is a little too strong in my opinion....

Which is exactly why DS strategy exists - to balance the game. In BlackSwan's example, the cost of the DS heli's is still more than the inf.

but way less reinf needed to take it than say IF, making it maybe not the most cost effective strategy, but often overlooked: the most reinf efficient strategy

Yea, but a player that is spamming infantry should be able to adapt by throwing in some AA or even better bombers which cost less than Helicopters and are cost effective at taking them out (exception being tanks, which are better but can't chase helicopters easily). On the other hand, a SM player will beat a DS player assuming same skill and income/reinforcements, does that also make SM overpowered because 5 bombers can take out 8 helicopter (seems quite cost effective to me).

Also, note all the players claiming it to be OP but will rarely use DS....

them main fact is ds is ruining competitive 1v1 right now........ the eu+ map is broken and whoever picks ukraine will win. Its not even just ds thats too strong! right now ukraine players get to choose their favorite flavor of ice cream it feels like... " u want strawberry ( desert storm ), or vanilla ( guerrilla warfare ) ? its stupid and it is taking the fun away from these maps right now.

ukraine really isn't op

The problem with ds is the militia not the helis themselves. It is a bit op. Ds ukraine has definitely broken the 10k eu+ meta for 1v1s. The is not a subjective view. I am willing to demonstrate why to any higher level players who doubt me on this. It is also very powerful in 5k settings but loses power on the higher fund settings where sm and mos come into play but that has always been the case.

To my surprise last night in an Africa cw it also proved to be a formidable strat on that setting which is pretty funny. Given the maneuverability and the defence of the militia i guess its not that surprising. It is just too versatile and dominating too many niches. I cant remember why we went for the militia boost and not an infantry boost. Someone provided reasoning against it on the modforum but i cant remember who. Anyway still its great to see underused strats come into prominence.

For those of you having difficulty with the math of ds helis vs infantry. There are very few situations where a ds player will be able to match heli spam with a player spamming infantry. They're expensive for a reason and anti air exist also for reason to give you an edge. It is generally very easy to guess where a ds player will attack. They havent huge range. Use the numbers defence bonus to your advantage when defending and youll be surprised how effective 1 or 2 anti air are in a big stack.

I remember i defended against a 24 heli 1 marine stack with my gen, 5 antiair and roughly 40 inf. I only lost the 5 antiair.

Guys DS is fine as it is.You guys are gonna keep nerfing strategies till only thing that will be playable will be PD.Remember when u cried about RA being op and now after u got your hands on it u fucked the poor strategy up big time? Deja vu! Just because a specific strategy is strong with a specific country in a specific default map area doesnt mean strategy is op! DS is by no means overpowered.In world map either 10k or 50k you cant dominate a good opponent while you being DS...So same logic GW ukraine is op does that mean that we should nerf GW? .....................

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 14:50

Geschrieben von 4nic, 16.01.2017 at 14:25

Don't judge how ds is OP by its ability to kill infantry..

why not

why no judge it by it's ability to kill AA...

Geschrieben von Checkmate., 16.01.2017 at 15:17

them main fact is ds is ruining competitive 1v1 right now........ the eu+ map is broken and whoever picks ukraine will win. Its not even just ds thats too strong! right now ukraine players get to choose their favorite flavor of ice cream it feels like... " u want strawberry ( desert storm ), or vanilla ( guerrilla warfare ) ? its stupid and it is taking the fun away from these maps right now.

Strong words there, young grasshopper. Please do accept some few tips to save yourself from what's coming:

1. ok you're pro enough and had played enough games to comment about strategies so skip this.
2. Find a counter to DS Ukraine.
3. Have fun while doing it.

What will happen if you don't follow the protips and keep making theses comments:

Geschrieben von Permamuted, 21.03.2015 at 06:04

Geschrieben von W4R_MaChINE, 20.03.2015 at 23:21

Geschrieben von Permamuted, 20.03.2015 at 21:11

Anything on blitz ukraine? it should be banned, if in doubt just look at its turn 4 capabilities.

i agree blitz ukraine is op. but what you posted can easily be achieved with sm...
someone with your skill should know this..
full scand - benel - balkans with 55/65 in kiev..

and put me in please

i can make that almost 100 in kiev, i could do the same with sm but i wouldnt have any west presense and i most certainly would not have 2k income by turn 4, nor would i so easily be able to unload that 100 units onto my opponent before rein week. By all means replicate my ss with sm if you feel im wrong.

I am quite confident that if i played this tourney i would be boarderline unbeatable in ukraine with blitz.

Geschrieben von Htin, 04.04.2015 at 16:56

i won the first game vs his blitz ukraine,

Geschrieben von clovis1122, 15.01.2017 at 10:51

5 IF tanks kills 8 AA & 2 Coastal Guns

Try to do that with SM 5 bombers
or 5 anything.
Either make IF tanks cost 200
Or lower their attack

I wonder why you defend it so much oh....

Geschrieben von AlBoZzZ, 15.01.2017 at 17:20

Any noob can win with ds ukr

gg

Geschrieben von 4nic, 15.01.2017 at 16:51

Thats their job...to kill infs if u havent noticed they gain +2att vs infs and +1 att vs milita they also have the worst defence so rushing helis with tanks and bombers is ur best option (helis have same defence as milita)

ds helis defense actually have the same as militia, or 5 (wow thats just terrible!) how interesting that its come to that no one remembers the DS buff. DS was fine just a year ago.. helis attack is fine if u ask me, the defense needs to go back to 4, and the militia range needs to go back to normal. Heres what i suggst:

Helis
Attack: same
Defense: -1
Crit: -1

Militia
Attack: same
Defense: same
Range: -1

I feel that if we take a crit point away from helis it can do away with some of those crazy rolls that helis seem to get, but keeping the attack will still keep the cultish appeal to playing the strat. Getting rid of the defense would mean that players cant just simply rush balkans with helis as ukraine, because now they cant really hold them that well. This would lead to an increase in thought and strategical thinking as players will have to genuinely think about where and when to rush, and not just rush anything and everything with a gray star/circle on it.

Geschrieben von Nations, 16.01.2017 at 16:36

Guys DS is fine as it is.You guys are gonna keep nerfing strategies till only thing that will be playable will be PD.Remember when u cried about RA being op and now after u got your hands on it u fucked the poor strategy up big time? Deja vu! Just because a specific strategy is strong with a specific country in a specific default map area doesnt mean strategy is op! DS is by no means overpowered.In world map either 10k or 50k you cant dominate a good opponent while you being DS...So same logic GW ukraine is op does that mean that we should nerf GW? .....................

Ra was op; 90 cost for 9 attack tanks... thts A1 bullshit right there

DS is op not only in UKR as you claim it is. OP in spain, germany, and especially in 5k settings

Gw ukraine is not as op as people make it out to be, it is very beatable, only no one knows how. Going into 5k, is gw op there too? yes! However, what makes it different is that it doesnt work in all 5k country settings, in fact, it doesnt work in that many. DS on the other hand (outside of volga and ukraine) works anywhere in 5k.

Granted, DS cost is fine if u ask me, and the attack is fine, it just needs to revert back to its original ways. Back then it was more balanced, and was more fair. Quite simple really

So if you are trying to make logical argument, please try using some first, thanks