Dalmati and future

Let me first say something about Dalmati. Even though it was pretty obvious that Dalmati is pretty inactive, now it's official. Most of us don't have as much as fun as we had months or even years ago and there is no point anymore. I believe we are and will be one of the most influential Afterwind coalitions along with few other names such as WBL, Empire SRB or BiteMe. We plan to keep the coalition and go inactive for some time.
There are several reasons for this:
1) Lack of challenge and competition - the current CW system is no good, the new players are not really good with no offense to anyone, there was a time when new players were actually good and able to beat higher ranked players on a much more complicated system with TB.
2) Departure of old school players, the best players have gone inactive which leads us to 1) again.

In my opinion, and in opinion of several other players - custom maps have destroyed competitiveness. People play UN maps and have no idea about game mechanics, strategies, or micromanagement.
Maybe, one day, we return to playing this game seriously, but now - there's no point.

We had a great time together, great coalition wars, there were some awesome rivalries. This is definitely the game I played the most and I found some really cool people whom I've added on Facebook.

Btw, I'm not saying I (we're) am leaving the game completely, we're just not playing this competitively anymore. I will come online to chat with other people and read forums so we will still see each other.


I don't know if I forgot to say something, I don't want to point out any names because I will forget someone.
Also, this is just my opinion on the Afterwind and its future, feel free to contribute.

Good luck and cya around.

Sad :'(

Caul,

01.
I personally share some issues you are mentioning:

• "In my opinion, and in opinion of several other players - custom maps have destroyed competitiveness. People play UN maps and have no idea about game mechanics, strategies, or micromanagement." - Yes, I agree on the issue that players are becoming less literate and instructed in game mechanics, strategies, or micromanagement.
  
• "Maybe, one day, we return to playing this game seriously, but now - there's no point." - No, I don't agree; there are players who take AW quite seriously, despite (or even with) the custom maps and less instructed players. I think that this issue is important for someone that has a MOD position and his/her motivation to keep up a MOD activity.
  
• "this is just my opinion on the Afterwind and its future, feel free to contribute." - Yes, I share your preoccupations on the AW future, in terms of: "massification vs. intensification" (how to meet both?), "players consumerism vs. players active support" (how to promote/encourage an active player community?), etc.

02.
If it is true what you are saying, and I believe it is, you should consider renouncing to your MOD position. AW cannot have more inacitive MODs; there are sufficient MODs that havn't played their role lately. Inactive MODs just should follow the example of Pinheiro: ¡abdicate of privileges and retire!

In solidarity with the issues at stake,
CD

This is why we should ban un games, but noooooooo they never listen to people.

I can totally relate to what Dalmati is going through.

When TB was removed, I remember Fruit telling me that now it's just inf spam, and whoever has the biggest army wins. I didn't believe him, of course, I was a Sky Menace player at heart and I loved my bombers. But now, seeing the current trend of strategies used in 3v3, it's clear that I was wrong. If someone doesn't play PD, plays IMP or NC, and with the same gameplay - spamming infantry units until someone can be capped, rinse and repeat.

That may have some correlation with the fact that there are less good players and less competitive ones. The inactive high ranks are being replaced by infantry spammers and I've heard from someone "please don't let PD be nerfed". The removal of TB also created an array of weird bugs and glitches that are littering the Bug section of the forums and that has been breaking coalition wars all around. I still miss TB - it added skill and another layer of tactics to the game. Removing it was a bad design decision based on faulty information. Fixing the wall glitch of the time correctly would mean a lot of hours writing code and maybe refactoring a lot of it, but it would have been worthy in the long run. The hardcore players would still be here and we wouldn't have this situation we have now.

atWar may still be a success due to the fact that now we have multiple war games in one, but the competitive scene will never be as good as it once was, with WBL, SRB, BM and Dalmati (and all their secondary training coalitions) active.

In my opinion, the development of the game should cater to the existing player base. What good is an influx of players if there are old ones going inactive all the time? We should get the new players, ease him up into the 3v3 and CW arenas and get him to stay by his desire to increase his skill, to master the game and be competitive. Right now, we are full of UN players who know only of diplomacy and whining, who still do not understand why their stack didn't move, and will slowly leave the game.

Even though we have been rivals since forever, I completely respect Dalmati and I really wish they didn't leave the game.

Cheers.

I agree with everyone above, having foreseen the custom maps making aw less competitive I have set out to make custom maps with competitiveness in mind only (perfect balance, viability), however I lost motivation. As for the bug, the first time it appeared was tournament match of me vs vril where half my units went outside and it is still around now.

Sad, some people still play competitively and hate UN games. Good luck y'all

Geschrieben von notserral, 12.05.2013 at 13:17

I can totally relate to what Dalmati is going through.

When TB was removed, I remember Fruit telling me that now it's just inf spam, and whoever has the biggest army wins. I didn't believe him, of course, I was a Sky Menace player at heart and I loved my bombers. But now, seeing the current trend of strategies used in 3v3, it's clear that I was wrong. If someone doesn't play PD, plays IMP or NC, and with the same gameplay - spamming infantry units until someone can be capped, rinse and repeat.

In my opinion, the development of the game should cater to the existing player base. What good is an influx of players if there are old ones going inactive all the time? We should get the new players, ease him up into the 3v3 and CW arenas and get him to stay by his desire to increase his skill, to master the game and be competitive. Right now, we are full of UN players who know only of diplomacy and whining, who still do not understand why their stack didn't move, and will slowly leave the game.

Even though we have been rivals since forever, I completely respect Dalmati and I really wish they didn't leave the game.

Yes, I was wrong about TB too. I thought that without turnblocking, the game would become even more strategic since the "luck factor" would be minimized. Oh, I was so wrong.
There are still competitive players out there but not nearly enough as before, I mean, there were always 3-4 constant competitive coalitions + few who would change every now and then. Now, there is not much of it...

And btw, we DIDN'T leave the game. I didn't leave the mod job, I will still be on forums, I will still be in-game and Dalmati will still be a coalition just I stopped playing this competitively which means no too serious games, no CWs and no tournaments. What's the point in playing competitively if there is no competition? Or, at least, not enough of it.

Good news from Caul!
I'm glad that I misunderstood your first post. I thought that you were going INACTIVE... that's the reason for my point 02. in the previous post. I don't think you are a bad MOD or a MOD that should renounce... on the contrary, AW needs experienced players in MOD position. Always keeping in mind, that a player with MOD status has more responsibility than any other "common" player.
On the matters of the general frustration: as a player that uses SM, MoS, GW and RA - in this order of preference and depending on the circumstances - I hate Inf-spamming!

¡Ban UN games; eliminate PD (¿and GC?)!

Cheers,
CD

Hey! I was right all along!
The UN games have ruined everything.

And you wonder why I have not been playing lately the past month or so.

I don't think we should remove custom maps or UN games, they are a good addition to atWar. However we should strengthen the competitive side - have admins actively participating in tournaments (it's one thing to have Pulse behind a tournament, another to have Amok), improve the CW system, etc. So that players can join AW to play UN but fall in love with the competitive aspect of it.

@Inkisidor: Even though they harm the competitive side, UN games will never be removed unless their creator wants to remove them. Stop polluting the forum with your claims about banning UN games.

The TB system has nothing to do with competitiveness. It's the customs maps that are simply more trendy, as well as the uneven strategies. If all strategies would be balanced there wouldn't be a problem with finding competition, and for the game to grow and prosper. The new TB is more strategic and I'm not going to explain why, I've said it many times before.

Balance the strategies, fix the bugs and find a way to make competitive play just as popular as the custom maps. And everything will be settled.

Geschrieben von tophat, 12.05.2013 at 17:48

The TB system has nothing to do with competitiveness. It's the customs maps that are simply more trendy, as well as the uneven strategies. If all strategies would be balanced there wouldn't be a problem with finding competition, and for the game to grow and prosper. The new TB is more strategic and I'm not going to explain why, I've said it many times before.

Balance the strategies, fix the bugs and find a way to make competitive play just as popular as the custom maps. And everything will be settled.

i think default maps should get x2 sp

Geschrieben von tophat, 12.05.2013 at 17:48

The TB system has nothing to do with competitiveness. It's the customs maps that are simply more trendy, as well as the uneven strategies. If all strategies would be balanced there wouldn't be a problem with finding competition, and for the game to grow and prosper. The new TB is more strategic and I'm not going to explain why, I've said it many times before.

Balance the strategies, fix the bugs and find a way to make competitive play just as popular as the custom maps. And everything will be settled.

I couldn't agree more with you.

I also want to add that TB was just a bug and people made a strategical point out of it, that you had to use to win. You dont need TB to archieve competitiveness (walls STRONG).

About all people complaining that un / ancient world / ... players are weak and that they just spam. Yeah thats true, but only because in these games you gain way more SP than in a 3vs3 eu game for instance. The old players are used to these games but the new ones aren't.
The only thing we need to do is to pick the competitive maps/presets out and set for them a multiplier, so that you get more SP while playing them. I am sure that people will then start playing this map.
But for now i can understand every new player joining a UN game. Why should i play 15 turns in a 3vs3 just getting 500SP, while i could have 1000SP in a Ancient world game.

To conclude this:
that what tops said + don't make custom maps look so bad, with custom maps we have a lot of great possibilities, they are one of the best updates of atWar/afterwind

While I agree with everything you said, the whole part about you leaving because other players are not good enough to provide a challenge to you came off as condescending.

The game needs a more competitive edge is all. A 1vs1 hopper with preset maps and rated team games would help.

Hey Caulerpa I think you are plagiarizing what I have said for a year, would like compensation thx
you can contact me at vizier@fruitfinancial.cz with the monies

but seriously I don't even need to comment

The only reason newer players were able to beat better players was because of TB's. After the removal of them, the game became too upgrade dependent, and those with premium features and more SP had a ridiculous advantage over those who don't have premium. Back in the day, as a rank 7-8, I'd be able to beat a rank 10 often, but now it's nearly impossible*. The game is just unit spam now, so whoever has the expendable upgrades will have an unfair advantage -- yes, this was present before the "update," but the issue has multiplied in severity now. yes, I have been away from the game for a while, but that's because the game just isn't fun to me anymore because of how one-dimensional it is. mind you, I didn't even use TB's because I ran IF a lot -- in fact, TB's usually fucked me harder than others because of how dependent my strategy is on stacks, but I was able to get over it. There's little to no diversity even in the team games that I played recently, and going back to the old system will bring us back to the times when aw was actually fun and when there was actually competition. until then though, vag out PCE

*note: this example was from back when I played, rank 10s are probably bad now, idk what the standard rank for good players is anymore

Great news,anyway iam only sad because dont beat dalmati in cw that was my bigest dream here.I wish you all best in real life caul and all other inactive dalmati members.


abaut UN scenario i think is very realistic and all new players enjoy in that scenario.

As has been pointed out many times over the last YEAR the clan war system needs altering. The problem isn't a lack of competitiveness but a lack of a system that rewards the better players/clans. The competence system is a catch 22, it has allowed clans (including my own) to gather trophies/wins when they frankly were not the best at the time. I'm sure this was designed to make it more challenging for the better clans, but over time it has become impossible for them to compete. Basically get rid of competence and simplify the system, this imo will increase clan competitiveness/keep people interested.

Geschrieben von notserral, 12.05.2013 at 16:22

However we should strengthen the competitive side - have admins actively participating in tournaments (it's one thing to have Pulse behind a tournament, another to have Amok), improve the CW system, etc. So that players can join AW to play UN but fall in love with the competitive aspect of it.

Geschrieben von b0nker2, 13.05.2013 at 03:38

As has been pointed out many times over the last YEAR the clan war system needs altering. The problem isn't a lack of competitiveness but a lack of a system that rewards the better players/clans. The competence system is a catch 22, it has allowed clans (including my own) to gather trophies/wins when they frankly were not the best at the time. I'm sure this was designed to make it more challenging for the better clans, but over time it has become impossible for them to compete. Basically get rid of competence and simplify the system, this imo will increase clan competitiveness/keep people interested.

Basically this from my point of view.

Geschrieben von VAGlNEER 2.0, 12.05.2013 at 22:59

The only reason newer players were able to beat better players was because of TB's. After the removal of them, the game became too upgrade dependent, and those with premium features and more SP had a ridiculous advantage over those who don't have premium. Back in the day, as a rank 7-8, I'd be able to beat a rank 10 often, but now it's nearly impossible*. The game is just unit spam now, so whoever has the expendable upgrades will have an unfair advantage -- yes, this was present before the "update," but the issue has multiplied in severity now. yes, I have been away from the game for a while, but that's because the game just isn't fun to me anymore because of how one-dimensional it is. mind you, I didn't even use TB's because I ran IF a lot -- in fact, TB's usually fucked me harder than others because of how dependent my strategy is on stacks, but I was able to get over it. There's little to no diversity even in the team games that I played recently, and going back to the old system will bring us back to the times when aw was actually fun and when there was actually competition. until then though, vag out PCE

*note: this example was from back when I played, rank 10s are probably bad now, idk what the standard rank for good players is anymore

now you have ranks 7-9 that play like rank 5. and Ranks 2-6 that play like ranks 1.

cuz all of them sp farm or play un games.
now is impossible to play ww2 maps because this fake ranks pick usa,russia,germany,japan and lose hardcore.

Geschrieben von tophat, 12.05.2013 at 17:48

The TB system has nothing to do with competitiveness. It's the customs maps that are simply more trendy, as well as the uneven strategies. If all strategies would be balanced there wouldn't be a problem with finding competition, and for the game to grow and prosper. The new TB is more strategic and I'm not going to explain why, I've said it many times before.

Balance the strategies, fix the bugs and find a way to make competitive play just as popular as the custom maps. And everything will be settled.

I couldn't agree more. I see no problem with the the custom maps or the changes on the TB system. I still defend my opinion on it, which has been exposed so many times in older threads.

Competition should be more encouraged.

Hmm, if the problem is not in the simplification of game mechanics nor in the only real update that has been released, then where is it?

I mean, we first have to find a problem before we can solve it. I don't think the higher SP rewards would help, 2 years ago we had the same SP system and almost the same CW and tournaments system and yet, the competition between players was much higher.

P.S. I think the custom maps are a great update, indeed. It has brought this game to another level and added to its popularity but competitive part is becoming worse and worse, and we should try to find a solution without banning UN maps or anything like that. It's not like the one part of the game terminates other. UN maps and everything can go along with competitiveness but not like it is now.

We need a rated 3vs3 teamgame, based on cows perception (look at his thread).
or whats with casual 3vs3?

Its seems that everyone here, whether it comes due to updates or not, has the idea that 'something' has changed which resulted in losing their motivating from playing AW. I have to agree in this and sadly, it is a complete 'old' generation which agrees in it. For a moment Cow's story gave me a flashback to the old times, the reasons i kept playing AW every day: I remember comming on each evening to play as much CW's as possible, try to learn new tricks, train with the coalition, chat the whole night with Caulerpa, Konstantin or Majorkill, having a fight with Fruit, Ironail or Cow, while i was recruiting new talents for our coalition meanwhile. But most of all: I remember i was spending my whole saturdaynight trying to figure out how on earth philipho's GW crushed my PD every single time!!! Anyway, enough nostalgia.

Times change! I still check the forum a lot of times, i did start a small tourney for fun, but as you can see in my game history i'm hardly in the game anymore. And i notice that a lot of 'old generation' players did became inactive in the last 6months. The main reason for me to come back now and then is because i still do some stuff as moderator, and because i don't want my coalition to die.

I can't give the exact reason why the old players are leaving. The removal of TB could be a problem, as well as the implementation of Custom maps. But i don't think custom maps are the problem. And i can only speak for myself here. I think the 'competition' is missing now. We had real rivalty between the coalitions, mainly BM, SRB, WBL and Dalmati. There is no competition going on now. Just a few CW's to get the season award that are mostly between coalitions somewhere in the middle of the league. With that, there is hardly a coalition to find, which wants to play against a coalition that is higher ranked then themselves. Losing seems to be a problem, while just playing should be the motivation only. I think there are enough idea's on this forum to bring back the competition between the coalitions. And i also agree that the 1v1's could use a boost.

nonsense, we have a lot of competition.

Andaters, from my point of view the europeans changed continents like Latin America Forever.

Geschrieben von Skanderbeg, 14.05.2013 at 11:27

You cannot change the world... many people tried - all of them failed. Not worth it.

I lol'd. This is wrong on so many levels I'm not even going to bother to reply directly to it.

Anyway, this isn't "the world", it's a small gaming community we like and enjoy being a part of, and if we think we can do something to improve it we will.

Geschrieben von notserral, 14.05.2013 at 19:34

Geschrieben von Skanderbeg, 14.05.2013 at 11:27

You cannot change the world... many people tried - all of them failed. Not worth it.

I lol'd. This is wrong on so many levels I'm not even going to bother to reply directly to it.

Anyway, this isn't "the world", it's a small gaming community we like and enjoy being a part of, and if we think we can do something to improve it we will.

Oh the primitive Aw. Andartes, it's a forum. We discuss and argue in order to improve the community as well as the game and its mechanics. If this principal didn't exist, there wouldn't be any sort of changes to the game. Discussing these things is what brings up various point-of-views in order to make the right decisions. If you have arrogance encompassing your thoughts, keep it out of the fora. Participating correctly would include informative arguments on your part.

Geschrieben von Skanderbeg, 15.05.2013 at 04:31

@Pulse, troll mod... makes me sick, you're really not interesting when posting like that.