More Power to Mapmakers
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In light of Martell announcing that he is going to take down his RP map, it brings up another important issue, that of how much power a mapmaker should have.
Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.
This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.
Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.
Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.
Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.
[EDITED BY CTHULHU]: Martell's thread has been deleted by Martell
Martell is taking down his map because his ban list is not being respected. The children who played his map would go to moderators because they think that their bans were "unfair" or "unjust" and the moderators would then step in and threaten Martell.
This is a disgusting abuse of moderator's powers. Moderators are here to enforce the AtWar basic rules so that AtWar can be a safe environment and free from spam and trolls. They are not here to regulate mapmakers. Mapmakers are the people who keep this game running, as without their maps, far less people would play AtWar. It is the hard work and creativity of the mapmakers that makes this game special. Moderators stepping in and regulating does not make the game any safer or better, it only causes mapmakers to close down their maps, feel bullied by "big government", and sometimes even flee from the game as the outcome of their hard work is not worth the effort.
Mapmakers should be able to ban people from their maps for whatever reason they want. If the mapmaker is truly abusing his power on banning people, the market will take its course, and the map will not be played as often as there are either too many bans or people do not think highly of the mapmaker. It is not like the maps made are the only ones available, all of them are easily substituted with another map of similar value. If you really think your ban was unjustified, go play another, similar map. The people bitching about being banned from Martell's map can easily go to Tempted's map. If they are banned from both, then my assumption would be that they truly deserved it.
Also, my map is my work and my property. Forcing me to allow people to use my map who I don't want is forcing me to work hard on creating these maps for certain people who I did not voluntarily agree to work for or suffer consequences, which is essentially slavery. You cannot force me to allow people to use my property.
Mapmakers, it's time to stand up for yourselves.
[EDITED BY CTHULHU]: Martell's thread has been deleted by Martell
No, it isn't related to a single match. I already defined what I think is game related.
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First you say "its not your business" ...few sentences later you compare players with customers and say they can criticize their business. OK if you want it that way ...i can throw out a customer if he is acting like an asshole towards me or my business. ...security!!
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What you are saying is right. What mapmakers are trying to do is exactly this, punishing people for saying things they don't like. The problem is still that the maps aren't hosted on your own property, but on Ivan and Amok's, and therefore have to follow their rules. You agreed to follow the rules when you signed up for atWar, which includes that mods are free to interpret, change and make new rules as they see fit. The fact that you payed for premium doesn't change that. You still have to follow the rules set and changed by mods and admins. You didn't get any ownership in the game or any say in what the rules are. What you got was the promise of Ivan and Amok to get to use extra features on their conditions. One of the rules which you have agreed to follow is that you won't use the banlist for personal reasons, and it is the mods' job to define a personal reason. The mods have been appointed and approved by Ivan and Amok, and have can have the power to tell you how the banlist should be used, and remove it if neccessary. You are welcome to leave atWar and take your map and host it somewhere else, but I don't think you want to do that. So for now you will have to follow the rules and stop saying it is your right to ban anyone.
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Nobody. If you would just have read my post you would have noticed it said: ''This is my opinion'' If you could be bothered to read my other posts you would have also noticed I have said it is the moderators responsibility to interpret the rules and define a personal reason. Although I am pretty sure they will give a similar response.
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And this is the funniest thing you people keep repeating ...you do realize, this topic is about changing the rules and making admins make a change. One side is saying "we want rules to change!!!!" And you guys keep yelling "admins are the ones that change them!!!" ...like, its an argument xD Laughing for 10 days now based on that.
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No, mapmakers like tunder and kentuckyballs claims it's their ''right'' to ban since it their property. I have already said in another of my posts in this thread that if they just wanted to change rules, thats okay, but they are acting like its their right. Go check my first reply to tunder.
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It is their property ...we established that already in: - nothing in terms of service is giving any copyright to protobytes over user created content - freedom of deleting the map is assumption without a doubt that the players have full claim on their maps - etc. etc. etc. ...hell even you guys admited that when you said "take your work elsewhere if you dont agree with the rules" When they publish the map they have to obey admins rules: - map makers here asking for the change of the rules - you guys keep pointing and saying "its the admins, its their call" Hilarious.
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I know, it's very funny.
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Sometimes their autism is concerning
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If it was indeed the makers 'property' then the website would have no right to delete or remove the said property, as it stands they can just delete your map, delete your account etc etc and you would have no legal case for compensation or reimbursement even if premium. Understand map makers (myself included) have no real power over the maps they have created, admins theoretically could clone any map and claim it as their own content since only the labour / time of the individual making the map is not their property. Equally nobody has copyrighted or patented their maps (remember that) but I assume the tools to create said content will be or at least licenced. Added to that storage to hold content, webspace to advertise content all belongs to them not us, face it amigos this strike does nothing to the mods/admins/your cause, it literally just shits on the ones who can do nothing about it, you know the people that enjoy your creations.
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this.this said it all <3
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Last sentence breaks my heart ...but its interesting how the map makers are considered guilty ones here and not the assholes who caused them to act. Why is everyone attacking the guys who help this game grow and defend the trolls and fuckers who shit over them and then cry about their rights. P.S. yea nobody copyrighted or patented their maps ...but remember most maps and backgrounds (beside free default map admins gave) come from unknown or copyrighted sources that admins probably wouldn't dare claim ownership over. Its in their interest for the maps to be the property of the players ...when you think about it.
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The funny thing is, more people would support if the approach was different. This strike in my opinion is the same as me protesting austerity measures in rl by smashing up banks or government buildings, it is counter productive and if anything is making those who had a slimmer of effect on the direction of the game lose that. The strike is accomplishing everything they are against, shooting themselves in the foot.
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I asked them not to be agressive and told them first strike should have been first and last ...no one likes threats.
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If you didn't notice we had a thread that asked for a long time before the strike. All it would of taken for mods is to be reasonable and say "Ya, that makes sense guys. Your maps, your rules. Not our responsibility. Support." Instead they say they want to remove banlist, and take bans into their control solely. At this point, only admins can lay down the law. Either way, unlike you, we will have a protest, even if futile, it shows we don't take it up the butt.
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They way I see it it is you the strikers that are trying to fuck people in the butt, not the other way around. Funny really that the only people that you are fucking over are the people that have allowed you to have a voice in the first place, ie the people that play your maps, as I said you are shooting yourself's in the foot. I am a mapmaker, I disagree with your view, therefore I am taking it up the butt from those big bad mods? Aetius and the strikers speak for all map-makers? No, no you don't, far from it, you speak for a few people under a self styled banner of 'mapmakers' Please carry on, you are giving me more evidence with these statements to agree that nobody here is reasonable enough to manage their lists without intervention.
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If the mods truly are interested in what's best for their players...
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Well Said!
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I suggest you read my post again, or at least learn better English. Because nowhere in my in my post did I say that maps don't belong to mapmakers. I have said multiple times that maps belong to mapmakers, and I haven't contradicted that. What I have said is that mapmakers can SUGGEST changes to the rules, but they DON'T have a RIGHT to complete banlist control. People like tunder acts like it is their RIGHT, but it is NOT A RIGHT. Why? Because it is hosted on atWar. And once again, yes, they can suggest rule changes, but that is not what they are doing. They are claiming it is their RIGHT. I hope you understand what my post actually said now.
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Nice insults about my english ... ..."or at least learn better english" ...i would form that sentence as "or at least learn English a little bit better". It is their right, given to them by the admins, written black on white by the mods in the rule 23. ...no matter that the rule states they need to defend that right. You and some others are arguing de facto and de jure state which is not on debate here ...what is on debate, is expansion of does rights that the map makers are asking for and the question of is it justified?
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Also goblin, remember that rule 23 is barely 1 day old, why should mods take our banlist away for "breaking" a rule that didn't even existed? all the arguments made by the opposition about "but the rules say" were completely invalid, as rule 23 didn't even existed. Even now, rule 23 is not specific enough, which will lead to more conflict in the future.
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Actually, common opinion of the community in the chats supports us. They know the menace trolls pose to their games. #1 complaint with aw is leavers ruining games and wasting time, and map makers have a vested interest in punishing them almost immediately. I think Amok and Ivan knew this, that to keep the playerbase of AW growing, they needed to do something about it. They trusted in the self-regulation of the map makers. Therefore, we do more every day to help the aw community by stopping trolls and providing content than all mods combined.
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Today I learned that one person's opinion = community's opinion
So much that mods have full control over who is banned from which map and which mapmakers can't ban people anymore. Anyway, the ability to ban people from your hosted games is already a huge plus. The ability to ban them from your maps is incredible, but with that much power also comes responsability (thanks, Uncle Ben). The rules have been informally in place since the implementation of the ban lists, yet several mapmakers ban at their own discretion (i.e. "Arabic homossexual", "fag", "insulted me", "has no skill to play the map" etc etc) and not banning to remove griefing and trolling. You yourself claim to be stopping trolls and griefers, but how are these below trolls?    I understand leavers harm the game and it's useful to have them banned, but labelling them as "trolls" and claiming you are stopping them is too much, sorry. As a rule of thumb, you have the right to ban players who are intent on griefing and wasting everyone's time, sure, but you're no paladin of justice and certainly no provider of fair play as you make yourself look like. How are you stopping trolls in world games?
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Is that Aetius's ban list? Either way just look at this topic lol....  So much replies for the people that have seen this....
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Yeah, but the average number of players online is 500+, if the community was so behind it, it'd have much more views, right? Regardless, complete control over banning will probably never happen.
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Bonker, we tried to talk about this to the mods in many threads and in many chats, but the mods didnt care at all what we wanted, even if we dont represent the entire community we still represent a part of it so we do still have a voice just as every dick trashing us, so the fact that we went on strike isnt an irrational decision. we tried to talk to the mods, but all they did was remove some bans and put a law in place that I feel does not clearly state guidelines and is counter-productive to the community. so stop blaming map makers for this issue, we have tried many times to talk to mods but they are reluctant to listen and the only option we had left was to revert to what we did last time, strike.
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You know how many people have played GGG? 23,000. Death of rome? 2400 King of the hill? 3600 Thats the number of people that have played my map at one time or another, if we assume none of the games failed. If i was really abusing the ban feature I would have at least 100 reports. The numbers don't lie, the people that are reporting are a minority. Isn't it funny that the only person that thinks i abuse the feature is swash?
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Sorry but ...how did you calculate this numbers thunder?
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Number of plays x number of spots needed for the game to be full.
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